Regarding Midnight Synergy - Part 2: The Forum

tyteen4a03 · Post by **tyteen4a03** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:45 pm

(snip)

Marinus · Post by **Marinus** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:51 pm

(snip)

Marinus · Post by **Marinus** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:40 pm

(big snip)

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:33 pm

OK, this is getting annoying. I have another page of personal blame and attacks...

I have asked at the beginning of this thread (and within it again) to not go for the "blame so-and-so" posts, and yet certain people jump in to do so repeatedly. To put it bluntly: If you're not following the rules yourself, you shouldn't be taking up the position of blaming others for not doing so.

So, to both tyteen and marinus. Your points (or lack thereof) have been made. They have been made repeatedly. I got it the first time. Let's move on.

I would suggest that neither of you post any further on this thread. If you (or anyone else) cannot make a post without "why so-and-so is to blame", please don't post. Period.

Thank you to those of you who are responding with actual suggestions of your own or discussing given suggestions, and doing so without the need to get personal.

In response to some things brought up:

Personally, I can't see how a ratings and infraction system would improve the board. Differences among people exist, a ratings system would only add fuel to the fire, in my opinion. But convince me otherwise, if you feel strongly in favour of this... What do other's (who haven't spoken up yet) think of this idea?

Blocking PMs etc... I think, as mentioned, some forums have this option. You can put someone on an "ignore" list, and whatever they do does not show up (I'm not sure about posts, but certainly PMs).

I agree with Mahaloof (and others) - I'd hate to completely remove the Off-Topic section. There is some good fun to be had there. I think that coming up with good rules for the Off-Topic section will be the toughest part. I think we all (almost?) agree that the posts in game-related sections need to be more strictly On-Topic than they currently are.

Popo: I'm not aiming for a luvvy dovey "everybody is happy" community. But I am trying to put things back into perspective, and looking for the right tool to do the job. This is a forum about a computer game. There is a social aspect to the forum. How do I get people - who do have differences - to at least play within the rules, i.e. not take every opportunity to jump down each other's throats because of (in some cases) issues that happened literally years ago!

If that is in fact not possible, then my only choice is to make this a game-only forum. Get rid of all off-topic, get rid of all personal stuff, get rid of PMs, get rid of anything that is not out in the open and game related. I don't think anyone wants that. But that is the option before us, because life is short, and I'm not willing to spend it dealing with a dozen or so egos every single time they decide to butt heads.

So - let me try to change course of this discussion al little.

We still have our issues with "how are rules enforced". But let's talk a little about "what are the rules". Again, WITHOUT POINTING FINGERS!!!, what would you say are appropriate posts for the following forum sections:

* General Game Related
* Solutions
* Custom Levels
* And the biggy: Off-Topic

Salin · Post by **Salin** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:48 pm

* General Game Related - to discuss the games.

* Solutions - giving solutions to levels

* Custom Levels - post levels, comment them, ask for help, give help.

* And the biggy: Off-Topic- Yeah, the tough one. I'd like to say anything goes, but it doesn't. It must be, in my opinion, free of spam, bad words, and picking on other people. Harrasing anyone for their language, rase or other issues should be stricktly forbidden.

The problem is how to handle it when one brake the rules. That's a question I don't know the answere too, but at least a few warnings should be given. And yes, I think in the end, banning them. But that's for MS only to deside/moderator, not me, the common user. Again, this is nearly suggestions, I don't know if it'll work.
Yes, they can come in again, off course, under different nick-names. But I think that it will soon be clear who they are, unless they've changed, wich must be the purpose anyway??

Pat · Post by **Pat** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:53 pm

I like the Forum just the way it is. It is/was/could be a great place. We all have the ability to IGNORE the areas we don't like....it's time to bite-the-bullet and use this ability...after all, this IS the greatest game in the world.

Salin · Post by **Salin** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:16 pm

Pat wrote:I like the Forum just the way it is. It is/was/could be a great place. We all have the ability to IGNORE the areas we don't like....it's time to bite-the-bullet and use this ability...after all, this IS the greatest game in the world.

Very true, but hard if you're personally attacked. Ignore is still a good key-word though, I think.

jdl · Post by **jdl** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:14 pm

Pat wrote:...after all, this IS the greatest game in the world.

Ya got that right, and none of ya forget it.

Dizzy1 · Post by **Dizzy1** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:38 pm

Midnight Synergy wrote:In response to some things brought up:

Personally, I can't see how a ratings and infraction system would improve the board. Differences among people exist, a ratings system would only add fuel to the fire, in my opinion. But convince me otherwise, if you feel strongly in favour of this... What do other's (who haven't spoken up yet) think of this idea?

In no particular order:
1. I don't think ratings will help.
2. If you don't like your PM from someone...delete it without reading, ignore it, or block them. Most of the forum members don't care and don't want to hear about it.
3. The Off-Topic section is absolutely Wonderful. But maybe we should make 2 categories. One for age 16 and up, then one for age 15 and under.
4. You break the rules and you're suspended for 6 months. If you come back and break the rules again, you're out!
5. Find a moderator. (no need to watch it 24/7, but do something about it when someone does a poo-poo in the forum halls.)

Other than those things...I like it just the way it is.
PS. Thanks for all you do, Patrick. It is appreciated.

kiki · Post by **kiki** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:19 am

Inger wrote:* General Game Related - to discuss the games.

* Solutions - giving solutions to levels

* Custom Levels - post levels, comment them, ask for help, give help.

* And the biggy: Off-Topic- Yeah, the tough one. I'd like to say anything goes, but it doesn't. It must be, in my opinion, free of spam, bad words, and picking on other people. Harassing anyone for their language, race or other issues should be strictly forbidden.

I'm with Inger here, but still say a Moderator would be nice just in case things get a bit dicey.
I for one will ignore any future rude comments.
My thing is designing and playing and commenting on levels.
Carry on wonderland!

shirl · Post by **shirl** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:55 am

I've been a member for quite some time although I'm not as creative as other members. I have never tried to create a puzzle. I sit in the background and download new games. My grandchildren love this and can't wait to play the new ones. I would be very disappointed if this were shut down. This is the best game I have ever downloaded. I really hope you keep up the good work and fantastic entertainment you have brought to me. Thank you all for the wonderful puzzles!!!!!

kiki · Post by **kiki** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:03 am

Thanks Shirl, your comment is appreciated and just the type of comment that inspires me and other level makers to carry on.

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:37 am

Hi Shirl, thanks for the comment. Don't worry - the site is not going away, but its focus might change somewhat. Hopefully for the better.

Since I'm bombarded with PMs, let me also address a few things:

* A few people have asked why I don't just set the rules myself, rather than going through the current painful process. I'd say that (a) any collectively developed ruleset will be more easily accepted and hence followed - requiring less moderation in itself - than one that has been simply imposed and (b) I'm not the one using the board - if there is a way to find a compromise that let's people use the board the way they wish and not get into a tussle, then that's great. If nothing comes out of this process, then I will make a final decision myself. But I feel it's worth one last try.

* One or two have again brought up the "less than 13 rule". I've said this before, but let me repeat it one more time. This board is NOT age restricted. The forum software automatically requires additional authentication for a younger member to join, but that is not a rule of my own (in particular since of course something like that is trivially easy to fake on the net). So again: this forum is open to everyone, of all ages.

popo · Post by **popo** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:02 am

Midnight Synergy wrote:One or two have again brought up the "less than 13 rule". I've said this before, but let me repeat it one more time. This board is NOT age restricted. The forum software automatically requires additional authentication for a younger member to join, but that is not a rule of my own (in particular since of course something like that is trivially easy to fake on the net). So again: this forum is open to everyone, of all ages.

Exactly what additional authentication is required if a child under 13 registers? As far as I can see it doesn't matter if you click that you are over 13 or under 13, you are still taken to the same page. I'm asking this from a parent's point of view. If I had a child under 13 I wouldn't want him to be able to register on any forum, even this one, without me knowing.

One of the 'rules' should be that you can only have ONE username. I cannot see the reason for having several unless it's to pretend you are someone else, which in itself is disturbing. If for some reason you want or need to change your username, then you should have your old one disabled by admin.

These are part of the Registration Agreement Terms ...

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed).

You seem to be repeatedly ignoring this, even though people keep complaining about it.

tyteen4a03 · Post by **tyteen4a03** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:00 am

Wondering why I got a suspension.

Dizzy1 · Post by **Dizzy1** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:21 pm

Midnight Synergy wrote:One or two have again brought up the "less than 13 rule". I've said this before, but let me repeat it one more time. This board is NOT age restricted. The forum software automatically requires additional authentication for a younger member to join, but that is not a rule of my own (in particular since of course something like that is trivially easy to fake on the net). So again: this forum is open to everyone, of all ages.

Maybe you can do what you did in the Levels forum and make a separate Kids area in the Off-Topic Section. It might not stop the problem, but it would be a good place to start. Who knows...it might just work.

Edit:

Example:
1. Meet and Greet
2. Off-Topic Discussions
3. Off-Topic Discussions Kids
4. The Midnight Post
5. The Midnight Vault

The_Merlin · Post by **The_Merlin** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:13 pm

Hi,

It's been a long time I posted something here on the board.

Just as MS said, there isn't much changed for a year and a half.

That's also why I haven't posted something interesting.

I was here to help people out for Wonderland Adventures cos I had a lot of free time doing it and I really loved it ! !!(YES I'm the same person but I changed my username!!!!!) Now everybody knows it!

I'm in for the new changes for the board and moderators.
But for everything, I leave it up to all of you.

I'm just waiting until it's Christmas and the new game is released.
Then I will be back here on the board.

popo · Post by **popo** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:17 pm

Midnight Synergy wrote:So, to both tyteen and marinus. .... I would suggest that neither of you post any further on this thread.

tyteen4a03 wrote: I gotta go right now,so I will continue to type later on.

Can't you read?

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:05 pm

Hey popo,

to answer your specific questions:

Exactly what additional authentication is required if a child under 13 registers? As far as I can see it doesn't matter if you click that you are over 13 or under 13, you are still taken to the same page. I'm asking this from a parent's point of view. If I had a child under 13 I wouldn't want him to be able to register on any forum, even this one, without me knowing.

Neither would I. And I don't know what the solution to that is, other than supervised internet access only. Which, in itself, is becoming more and more difficult given that you can browse the internet using anything these days.

But... phpbb (the software running this forum) brings up the Over/Under 13 page as a default. If you click on under 13, you get a response that says you need to fax/e-mail the agreement of your parents. I don't know of any forum that actually enforces this, because anyone registering, even a child, can simply click "I'm over 13" and be in. No questions asked. (and, given that there are so many "age verification" thingies on the net these days, I'm quite sure any child with some experience surfing will know that they are easily circumvented. Really scary, given the stuff out there). So I have never stated, or enforced, a 13+ rule. I will see if I can get rid of this registration distinction altogether in the next forum upgrade, given that it keeps causing confusion.

I'm not sure if that answered your question, of if that was even your question. I hope it was.

One of the 'rules' should be that you can only have ONE username. I cannot see the reason for having several unless it's to pretend you are someone else, which in itself is disturbing. If for some reason you want or need to change your username, then you should have your old one disabled by admin.

This is a contentious one, I know. I personally don't have a strong opinion on this one, so continue to send me your yays/nays on this one via post or pm.

These are part of the Registration Agreement Terms ...
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed).
You seem to be repeatedly ignoring this, even though people keep complaining about it.

Point taken, although I think I would not consider the type of comments made here (even in the worst of feuds) as the type of thing that would break actual laws and have isps involved. (actually, that is not quite true... I have had two people reported in the past - but both for infractions that were way beyond the type of petty argument that seems to be the trouble on this board)

Toon Dog · Post by **Toon Dog** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:39 pm

Midnight Synergy wrote:
popo wrote:...Small Speeches Simply Save Server Space... only ONE username allowed...
I personally don't have a strong opinion on this one, so continue to send me your yays/nays on this one via post or pm.

85% Yay --------

15% Nay --

The only reason I made Toon Dog and left Moshposh was because I put in an email that didn't work (whoops) of mine, and then my account didn't work, because the change of email requires validation again. Well, I couldn't get the email, couldn't get the URL, couldn't get in my account. So I made another one. Maybe you should delete that old one...
Sometimes people just make 2 users to trick people. Some people just make 2 for the fun of making accounts. Some make them because the other one got banned... Still.

Not sure. You shouldn't get banned for doing it, but you shouldn't be able to just do it and get away with it.

dlcs18 · Post by **dlcs18** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:49 pm

The only reason I have 2 accounts. (dlcs18 and dlcs) is because when I was changing my e-mail, It says I had to validate email address again but then couldn't find the e-mail in my box. So I thought I could never get on that account again so made another one. (Kinda like what Toon Dog did, but this time I actually got the e-mail so got back in to my normal account.
You can delete the other dlcs if you want.

I have another suggestion: How about, to make browsing members easier and to free up the clutter in the Memberlist, get rid of the users who have not yet validated their account. (Of course, not if they joined recently, cuz it does take time to click that button to validate it). You could get a mod (Not moderator, mod as in forum add-ons) that will delete the user if the user has been on the forum for 24+ hours and hasn't validated their account. I think it is annoying that the memberlist is cluttered up with members that register, then never return.

Salin · Post by **Salin** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:57 pm

popo wrote:
One of the 'rules' should be that you can only have ONE username.

100% YAY

ALSO, remove the option to log in "hiding", please. For the same reason as for the above quote.

dlcs18 · Post by **dlcs18** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:01 pm

Salin wrote: ALSO, remove the option to log in "hiding", please. For the same reason as for the above quote.

Some users don't like people to know when they are online because they don't want PMs saying "Oh hi I can see you are online now, wanna talk?".
Not that anyone does that anyway, but some people just like to browse the forum unnoticed by others.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:40 pm

dlcs18 wrote:The only reason I have 2 accounts. (dlcs18 and dlcs) is because when I was changing my e-mail, It says I had to validate email address again but then couldn't find the e-mail in my box. So I thought I could never get on that account again so made another one. (Kinda like what Toon Dog did, but this time I actually got the e-mail so got back in to my normal account.
You can delete the other dlcs if you want.

I have another suggestion: How about, to make browsing members easier and to free up the clutter in the Memberlist, get rid of the users who have not yet validated their account. (Of course, not if they joined recently, cuz it does take time to click that button to validate it). You could get a mod (Not moderator, mod as in forum add-ons) that will delete the user if the user has been on the forum for 24+ hours and hasn't validated their account. I think it is annoying that the memberlist is cluttered up with members that register, then never return.

See, this is the EXACT reason that I switched to Qloof234. I requested an e-mail change for loof101, over to mai new e-mail, couldn't log on and NEVER recieved the e-mail on either accounts.

EDIT: @ tyteen:

tyteen4a03 wrote:Wondering why I got a suspension.

Midnight Synergy wrote:So, to both tyteen and marinus. Your points (or lack thereof) have been made. They have been made repeatedly. I got it the first time. Let's move on.

I would suggest that neither of you post any further on this thread. If you (or anyone else) cannot make a post without "why so-and-so is to blame", please don't post. Period.

Lol?

bob roest · Post by **bob roest** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:15 am

I just read this thread from beginning to end. Wow!

Patrick, leave the forums alone, they're fine. You can't invite free speach and then deny it. It's been tried before, it doesn't work well.

This place is going through a change. Everyone knows it, let the waters settle and we'll see where we end up.

I'm staying because I like making levels and I have made some good friends here and I don't like to be pushed around by the ignorant few.

Anyway, that's my two cents, take it for what it's worth.

kiki · Post by **kiki** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:01 am

Bob has a good point also Patrick, I think after the last little row people are truly tired of it all and just want to get back to having fun.

The spam seems to have slowed to a stop so at the moment no problems there.

I still think the forum will get going again in the winter months.
but if a change is in the wind please keep it simple and make it fun.

Either way this will still be a great place to unwind, relax and just have fun.

Duiveltje · Post by **Duiveltje** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:02 am

Hi Patrick, the only thing I want is playing the game and the levels.

I download the levels and try to play them. For a "blondie" like me the kidslevels are the best.

There are some great levels, texture and model makers here and I love that. I had lost my fun for playing month ago, but it is coming back.

It would be nice when we can do a little chat beside playing. A moderator would be a good idea to track improper and rude behaviour.
When that behaviour pops up a first warning should be given and when that doesn't work ban them for one month. 3th time banning for good.

A kid section is also a good idea. It is a fact that kids have interest in other subjects than adults. But the rules most be the same for both of them.

Rose

Blast!10 · Post by **Blast!10** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:48 am

I also suggested once that the offtopic section would be split into normal offtopic chat and creativity.
Or maybe, remove the offtopic chat forum and instead create a bunch of new forums:

Creativity (show off your art, games, web site etc)
Forum Games (post threads like A-Z story, 3 word story, 4 syllable story etc)
Forum Discussion (discuss about the forum itself)
More Stuff (post games, art etc. NOT made by you [things that you make go in creativity])
Community Projects (chain levels, chain games, chain everything else )
Add more if you want...

popo · Post by **popo** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:24 am

Toon Dog wrote:
popo wrote:...Small Speeches Simply Save Server Space... only ONE username allowed...

Please, if you're going to quote me, make sure you use the actual words I said and not a variation, otherwise it isn't a quote, is it? Thank you.

popo · Post by **popo** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:44 am

Salin wrote: ALSO, remove the option to log in "hiding", please. For the same reason as for the above quote.

Now I don't have a problem with this at all, I never look to see who's online so it doesn't matter to me if you're hidden or not. I am hidden as a matter of fact, but that's more because I thought that if everyone isn't hidden the list at the bottom of the index page could go on forever on a good day. Plus, there is the thing that dcls18 brought up that if someone sees you're online and sends you a PM, they will wonder why you didn't answer it straight away, and you might just not feel like talking at that time. Not that I ever get that many PM's that it would ever be a problem for me.