WA1: "Adventures done Adventurously" project topic

Discuss the games (no level solutions or off-topic, please).

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Qloof234
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Post by Qloof234 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:21 am

TP, remembered something else.

I'm not sure if it saves that much time (I think it does, but I'm not sure), but alternate (slightly) route for Hop, Skip & Blink - Instead of Blinking onto the Firetrap switch, just Blink over the traps themselves to the gems. It uses two shots, so you'll have to blink from the alternating bridge right to the transporter, but it's faster than using the button and you'll be ready to Blink onto the bridge as its next "cycle" starts, making the timing to Blink to the transporter much easier.
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Post by billy bob » Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:01 pm

Qloof234 wrote:55:22
That's... Surely you're done with this category. :lol:
Qloof234 wrote:Actually, @billy bob - You said you mash Enter instead of clicking to skip through dialogue. Is there any trick to this? Whenever I try doing this, it doesn't continue until the first dialogue box is completely loaded. I seem to recall reading holding an arrow key had something to do with this, but even if I'm not pressing anything except Enter, the dialogue won't advance via Enter until the first interchange is already done. :?
I thought pressing enter and using the mouse has the same effect, only one can't press either of the enter buttons while having the left or right arrow key held. I guess the reason why I mash enter is because my mouse clicker is extremely faulty and won't function 1 out of 6 times. :(
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Post by Qloof234 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:51 pm

Yeah, I think I'm done with this... For now. :P :lol: AGDQ 2015, here I come! :lol: :lol:

As for Enter/Click, I don't know if there's a difference other than waiting through the starting interchange, I never really timed it.
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Post by billy bob » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:32 am

EDIT: Qloof234 found this seven years ago and... forgot about it? Check this.

New discovery! Central Wondertown early!

Get star magic in west Wondertown then cast a spell on the barrel at the bottom of the area. Walk across the path where the barrel was right then up to the arrow taking you to central Wondertown.

As for what this skips... Well we still need four shards so we still need to do the sewers section in this run, unless we get the blue shard but that requires 25 stars unless there is a way of getting passed the red gate below the corn fields. Unlike most gates in the hub that gate has a subcolour of 0, so it is entirely possible that somehow we could complete an adventure with a red key without having to use it then use it on the gate. That would be a sweet route because you can also get two blue shards, and you could get the purple key in the corn fields that can skip two adventures later in Temple Ruins.

What it definitely does skip is the adventure "Introducing Wysp!", and perhaps it could be a route to do the adventures for getting mushroom keys before sewers, then going to sewers and getting the second indigo shard, then going back to Mushroom Grove to get the red shard. This might be a good route because we wouldn't have to do so many adventures in the sewers, but it does mean more walking round the hub.

EDIT: I can't get out of any adventures before Foggy Mountains with a red key except Fire & Ice and that has to be the only red key with the wrong subcolour! Oh well, that's it for that route I guess. As for getting the mushroom keys then the sewers indigo shard then the red shard, that skips another six adventures at the mere cost of having to go from mushroom grove to sewers and back an extra time, which works well because we can get Patooters' mushroom key on the way!
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Post by Qloof234 » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:17 am

As mentioned on Skype, I tried using the barrel skip in an otherwise casual run of the game. Final time was around 0:59:46 or so, and there were a lot of mistakes along the way.

In other words, this is almost certainly a decent time-saver. Having said that, there aren't enough coins for both the larger inventory bag and a lamp before the Sewers. As a result, the route changes slightly - on first entering Wondertown Square, only the larger inventory bag needs to be purchased. A different adventure (i.e. Firing Squad) needs to be done in place of Chomper Cave.

When returning to get the Red Shard later, you can buy the lamp and pick up Patooters' mushroom key at the same time.

An unrelated note - Turning up your monitor's brightness can make the Pyramid a lot less painful. I turned mine up a while back for Minecraft (so I could see what I was doing without putting my nose to the screen) and noticed a huge difference in visibility in the Pyramid. Just a note of interest.
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Post by billy bob » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:02 am

My guide from before has been fully updated with the new route.


I still do Chomper Cave, just without the lamp. I usually complete it around 50 seconds, which is only a few seconds slower than how long I take to complete it with the lamp.

Also one can collect the first indigo shard before the mushroom keys or after the mushroom keys, it makes absolutely no difference.

Here is an approximation of how long it takes to get each mushroom key in Lazy Leaf Woods (it seems like a waste not to post it somewhere, and it can get referred back to).


Lazy Leaf Woods Mushroom Key Choice


Firing Squad - 90 seconds (2 seconds in hub) - 2 coins 0 moves, 1 coin 1 move

Pop Springs - 50 seconds (1 second in hub) - 2 coins 6 moves

Turtle Race - 40 seconds (1 second in hub) - 4 coins 3 moves, 2 coins 2 moves

Pop and Blink - 70 seconds (1 second in hub)

Chomper cave - 50 seconds (1 second in hub)

Helping Friends - 70 seconds (4 seconds in hub) - 3 coins 0 moves, 2 coins 2 moves

Lazy Leaf Race - 45 seconds (7 seconds in hub)


We need to complete four of these adventures.

Combined with the sewers we want 20 coins, so to come out of these adventures with at least 10 coins is ideal.

Note that avoiding combinations of adventures might save more time in the hub than the combined amounts of time it takes to avoid them individually.
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Post by Muzozavr » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:15 pm

But I thought going back means you get stuck in the stinker who won't let you pass??? :?

Anyway, I'm super busy and have logged on for literally two posts. One of them is essentially this: epic timesaver is epic. How do you even find these things, billy bob? :? :shock: :o
Rest in peace, Kym. I hardly knew ya.
Rest in peace, Marinus. A bright star, you were ahead of me on my own tracks of thought. I miss you.
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Post by garirry » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:21 pm

Muzozavr wrote:How do you even find these things, billy bob? :? :shock: :o
I guess he just spends hours trying to figure them out.
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Post by Qloof234 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:07 pm

Muzozavr wrote:But I thought going back means you get stuck in the stinker who won't let you pass??? :?
It's true that going back puts you on the same tile as that Stinker, but you can walk out of him just fine. It just means you need to take a couple extra seconds going down and around again.
Muzozavr wrote:Anyway, I'm super busy and have logged on for literally two posts. One of them is essentially this: epic timesaver is epic. How do you even find these things, billy bob? :? :shock: :o
Not gonna lie, right after BB brought this up on Skype, I just about facepalmed - I remember mucking about with white magic and destroying that barrel many years ago, but never even thought about using it as a shortcut. :P :lol:
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Post by Muzozavr » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:50 pm

OK, so this is probably a terrible idea, but what about doing "The Package" (although that's some very frustrating scritter control :lol: ) to open the arcade, and then trying to nick a key from one of the arcade levels? This is probably going to be terribly slow and not worth it, though, even if it DOES turn out to be possible.

There's no way to use the "Fire and Ice" key inside a different adventure and then get another key from there, right? :(
Rest in peace, Kym. I hardly knew ya.
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Post by billy bob » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:00 pm

The new route skips 7 adventures, so we only have to collect 38 stars now. :D
Muzozavr wrote:OK, so this is probably a terrible idea, but what about doing "The Package" (although that's some very frustrating scritter control :lol: ) to open the arcade, and then trying to nick a key from one of the arcade levels? This is probably going to be terribly slow and not worth it, though, even if it DOES turn out to be possible.
You can only access "The Package" after getting access to east of Wondertown. :P
EDIT: Actually I've realised that you can enter the arcade early by using the key in Fire and Ice. But by the time I write this edit we've already found a way to get to The Plains early anyway.
Muzozavr wrote:There's no way to use the "Fire and Ice" key inside a different adventure and then get another key from there, right? :(
The key in "Fire and Ice" doesn't work because it is the wrong subcolour, that is 501. If it were to unlock a gate in another adventure, that gate would have to be subcolour 501. The key that was originally intended to unlock that gate would have to be subcolour 501 to unlock that gate, so that key wouldn't work either. :P
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Post by Qloof234 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:02 am

OKAY, SO

First off: My PB, 55:22.23... I think there were some timer shenanigans going on with that run. I'm not sure, but at any rate, I'm going to retract it.

Having said that, I did a run using this new Wondertown-early route, and...

Image

This route is definitely faster. There were some screwups along the way, too (Seven Locks, Power Cubes... whichever one has the spikey flying around and takes like 10 seconds, probably some other stuff that doesn't come to mind immediately). It's been a while since I've done any of this, so I'm a bit out of it, sue me. :P

I will note that there was a brief moment in the Pyramid where I had the timer paused for two or three seconds to think, bringing the total time up to 55:14.13. I recorded this one, too - Once I finish processing it, I'll upload it.

One note about this - I ended up skipping the lamp entirely. It turns out, none of the levels required in our Any% route - including Chomper Cave - are pitch black, only mostly dark. Needless to say, this automatically makes Wonderland Adventures 1 the best game in the trilogy because there are no pitch-dark levels :P :wink:

Anyways, video coming soon-ish. Please don't kill me for my embarrassing mistakes

EDIT: Video.
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Post by billy bob » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:55 pm

Qloof234 wrote:Please don't kill me for my embarrassing mistakes

Video.
Time to be brutal. :twisted:

10:04 - Why? You're choosing to do an extra adventure. If you're thinking about coins then get the seven coins in The Magic Gloves instead. Time can be saved here by simply Blinking passed this adventure. :lol:
17:19 - Please memorise the route before doing speedruns. :razz: Unfortunately you can't Q-Spell to the finish, but you can cut through the middle to get round quicker.
21:26 - You're doing the safe strategy here. You can save seconds by overtaking the Thwart the whole way by following a set of moves (look at my guide) where you don't even need to press the buttons for the bridges.
21:52 - You don't need to press the green button here. You just need to move onto the space two spaces below it.
23:02 - Please memorise the route before doing speedruns. :razz:
25:10 - You can use Blink more in this adventure to skip more walking.
25:30 - This isn't the most efficient way round the sewers. There are some more direct Q-Spells.
30:49 - Please memorise the route before doing speedruns. :razz:
31:46 - You were right to press the yellow button before doing the adventure but I believe it is quicker to press the red button after the adventure because you have to wait for the rainbow key to land anyway.
33:35 - Practice the left side of this adventure lots and make visual cues for when to ride a transporter and cast Pop.
35:32 - You have to get star magic for later anyway, so get it now and only press the red to yellow button then the yellow button then destroy the kegs from the right side.
36:19 - Are you doing this adventure because you don't feel comfortable playing "Within a Deep, Dark Forest" without a lamp?
40:25 - You don't need to collect the gem on the right side.
43:04 - Please memorise the route before doing speedruns. :razz:
44:38 - You got burned because you didn't cut the corner here. As soon as you did this you should have either restarted the adventure or just waited for the Thwart to fire again before moving onto the spring.
45:40 - I don't take this risk I just Blink onto the left when I see the fireball then I Blink back onto the right then I Blink onto the far right and do the same thing on the right side. Less risky but longer.
46:27 - You failed the memory test.
47:32 - Please memorise the route before doing speedruns. :razz:
51:44 - Cah? Don't you use this too while meditating? :lol:
52:02 - 3,000,274 coins for a xyzzy? Too good to be true. :lol:
53:25 - This is not the fastest route. The Fireflowers can destroy them all in two shots.
53:59 - Please memorise the route before doing speedruns. :razz:
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Post by Qloof234 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:16 pm

Ahem:
Qloof234 wrote:I'm a bit out of it

[...]

Please don't kill me for my embarrassing mistakes
Thanks, chief. :roll:
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Post by garirry » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:32 pm

Nice speedrun! Two questions: why do you need to go through the Morklin's Temple and the Sewers to get the two indigo shards? Also, how do you do trigger Morklin's dialog that causes him to give the purple key? If I recall correctly, it is triggered by finishing the Thwart stage in Foggy Mountains.
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Post by Technos72 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:35 pm

Nice speed run. But...
Qloof234 wrote:Image
What program is this? Just wondering
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Post by billy bob » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:14 pm

garirry wrote:Two questions: why do you need to go through the Morklin's Temple and the Sewers to get the two indigo shards? Also, how do you do trigger Morklin's dialog that causes him to give the purple key? If I recall correctly, it is triggered by finishing the Thwart stage in Foggy Mountains.
Note that you can get the red shard in Mushroom Grove before the blue shard or get the blue shard in The Foggy Mountains before the red shard. MS wanted it so that to get access to Temple Ruins you have to have collected both the red shard and the blue shard; that is have four shards in your inventory. So MS couldn't just make it so that Morklin gives you the key to Temple Ruins after completing Thwart the Thwarts otherwise you could get to Temple Ruins without getting the red shard. So to meet his ambitions MS made it so that when you complete The Red Shard or Thwart the Thwarts the game checks how many shards you have. If you have four shards in your inventory when you complete The Red Shard then Morklin will give you the key to Temple Ruins (note that you are given the red shard just before you complete the adventure). If you have three shards in your inventory when you complete Thwart the Thwarts then Morklin will give you the key to Temple Ruins (note that you are given the blue shard just after you complete the adventure). So that's the way it works. However, this mechanism can be abused as is done in this speedrun. By getting an extra indigo shard in Morklin's museum you have an extra shard than the amount you're supposed to have. This means that we can complete The Red Shard with four shards in inventory and get the Temple Ruins key without getting the blue shard from The Foggy Mountains, which is the largest skip in this speedrun. This is also why we get the indigo shard from the sewers; we need to have four shards when we complete The Red Shard. Now you may be wondering if we have to get the indigo shard in the sewers, what is the use and point of going to Wondertown centre before you are supposed to? Well, first of all it skips the adventure Introducing Wysp! and what would be the Wysp cutscene had there not already been found a way to skip it (that will still be useful for 100% BTW). But it also skips another six adventures because there is a StarGate in the sewers that you would normally have to complete another six adventures to unlock. With Wondertown centre early we can complete the mushroom key adventures that we need to complete later anyway for mushroom keys before going to the sewers, then that way when we go to the sewers we have the amount of stars required to open the StarGate without completing any unnecessarry adventures.
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Post by Qloof234 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:13 pm

Technos72 wrote:Nice speed run. But...
Qloof234 wrote:Image
What program is this? Just wondering
It's WSplit. I'm using the Edit menu there, because I didn't get a screenshot of the "proper" timer with the final time.
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Post by garirry » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:23 pm

billy bob wrote:MS wanted it so that to get access to Temple Ruins you have to have collected both the red shard and the blue shard; that is have four shards in your inventory. So MS couldn't just make it so that Morklin gives you the key to Temple Ruins after completing Thwart the Thwarts otherwise you could get to Temple Ruins without getting the red shard.
I don't even think that would be necessary, since you still need the red shard to teleport to the Forever Forest. Anyways, thanks for the explanation, I understand now.
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Post by billy bob » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:36 pm

Video: Wonderland Adventures Any% 52:48

Quite sloppy in places, but I'd say there were only about five real mistakes. Definitely looking to improve this time.

There is also a chance that it was 52:49 I can't be sure it's really close.
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Post by Muzozavr » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:23 pm

Is there any use of the "saving in dialogues" trick in WA? There is definitely your skip in POTZ and in at least one adventure in MOFI ("Don't Leave Me Behind" can be potentially ended in seconds with this trick), but I'm not sure if there are any truly epic uses for it in WA.
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Post by billy bob » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:24 pm

Video: Wonderland Adventures Any% 52:11

I will still try to improve this time.

I also do the main menu glitch at the end of the video.
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Post by billy bob » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:20 pm

Video: Wonderland Adventures Any% 51:43

So many mistakes I'm surprised this is my personal best.



EDIT:

Found something strange in The Green Shard which is useful. This means that we only need to blow up one power station. The water around the power stations has floor logic for some reason. This means that we can blow up the right power station, Blink over to the floor around the left power station then Blink to the space below the star without having to blow up the left power station and waiting for the other two gates to open. The reason why when you blow up the right power station we can't just Blink to the floor round that one is because the green gates would rise and kill you, but if that were possible it wouldn't save much time anyway because you'd still have to wait for the gates below the star to open anyway.
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Post by Qloof234 » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:25 pm

Image

Didn't bother recording this one, because yesterday was not a good day for speedrunning and I was all but certain this would end in disaster. :P

Mistakes... In no particular order:
  • Power Cubes B, which I forgot basically the moment I got there.
    Power Cubes... D? The flying Spikey one, which I always forget.
    Bumbling around in the wrong direction on the way to get the Red Shard, because I'm smrt.
    General dialogue shenanigans.
Probably some other small movement improvements that I've forgotten, as well.
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Post by Qloof234 » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:18 pm

DP. On a hunch, I started mucking about in The Green Shard to see if using white magic on the right generator could be used alongside the hidden floors to save time.

Sadly, it can't, or at least requires incredibly inhuman reflexes. :(
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Post by Qloof234 » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:27 am

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Twitch.tv link because I can. The first few seconds, where it's in Stinker Rescue, was part of an attempt that I gave up on basically immediately.
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Post by billy bob » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:34 pm

This is definitely my favourite trick in this speedrun. A truly amazing discovery has been made.

As it turns out, this glitch is actually very useful. Because if you do it in The Magic Gloves, then the half of the player that you cannot move but still reacts to objects gets spawned exactly where the magic gloves are, instantly completing the adventure. A huge lucky coincidence seeming as that random space could be any space in this adventure, and only that one space would be of any use.

If we are to do everything else in the route the same then this does mean that as we didn't collect the coins in this adventure then we can't purchase the large inventory bag. But after I looked at it it may have already been faster to skip the large inventory bag anyway! I'm not sure but I'd say this in all saves roughly 40 seconds with this route. We:
1. No longer have to go to any effort to collect coins.
2. Skip most of The Magic Gloves with this glitch.
3. Have to get early indigo shard after mushroom keys.
4. Don't need to buy anything from MooseJaw.
5. Take an extra trip to Mushroom Grove just after collecting the mushroom keys to use up five mushroom keys.
6. Collect Patooters' mushroom key after the sewers.
7. Don't collect the blue flower otherwise you'll have inventory problems in Forbidden Forest later.

This is all if we continue with the route that we have been using. But there's something else. You see, this glitch also allows for something much deeper than just saving some time. It allows us to get to The Plains (east of Wondertown) early. We do this by getting the key in The Magic Gloves before performing the glitch to instantly complete the adventure. This key can later be used to open the red gate below the corn fields that you are supposed to open from the other side. So perhaps a different route for Any% could be to get one of the blue shards instead of one of the indigo shards, or maybe both blue shards instead of both indigo shards.
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Post by boh123321 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:09 am

...wow

That is certainly one of the most interesting glitches I have ever seen in a game :lol:
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Post by billy bob » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:59 am

Now we can access The Plains and therefore The Foggy Mountains early there is a possibility that getting one of the indigo shards and one of the blue shards or two of the blue shards and none of the indigo shards might be quicker. I tested these two against each other to begin with and found that they were about the same speed, except I then realised that with one indigo shard we would still need to continue out the chase with the Thwart in Morklin's Museum otherwise Morklin's dialogue doesn't actually change later when we have obtained four shards. Also I noticed that with one indigo shard then you'll have an extra inventory space used during mushroom key collection which can only be a bad thing. So one blue shard definitely takes longer than two blue shards unless I've missed a trick.

As for two blue shards, if it is quicker then here is what I think is the best route for it from accessing The Magic Gloves to accessing the adventure Changing Colours:

Play The Magic Gloves.
Wake up both Wee Stinkers then press the yellow button.
Place one of the Wee Stinkers onto the left purple button and one of the Wee Stinkers onto the middle purple button.
Move onto the middle purple gate then move the left Wee Stinker onto the right purple button.
Collect the red key then move the right Wee Stinker onto the left purple button.
Move the other Wee Stinker onto the left purple gate.
Move the Wee Stinker on the button off the button.
Press Esc then select Exit Game.
Select Yes, Please then select No, save my game!.
Save your game then reload your save.
Talk to Cedric-in-the-Morning then move onto the Blink charger.
Save your game then Blink to the area on the right to the adventure Fire and Ice.
Save your game then load your Blink save.
Load the save that you just made then move right to activate the Fireflower.
Cast Star Magic onto the Fireflower thrice.
Move to the bottom of the west Wondertown area.
Save your game then load your Blink save.
Load the save that you just made then cast Star Magic onto the barrel at the bottom of the area.
Follow the path the barrel was on and onto the bridge to central Wondertown.
Move up and right to the Pop area and talk to Zoopi Lala.
Answer two dialogue boxes then choose What kind of magic do you study?.
Proceed to area on the right.
Complete Good Flower, Bad Flower then talk to Dreeny again then collect the mushroom key.
Use the red key from The Magic Gloves on the gate to access The Plains early.
Go up four areas to the area with the StarGate.
Go back down four areas then talk to Dizzy and collect the mushroom key.
Complete Double Lock and collect the mushroom key.
Go to Lazy Leaf Woods and gain four mushroom keys there (play Pop Springs, Turtle Race, Chomper Cave, Lazy Leaf Race).
Go to Mushroom Grove and use four mushroom keys.
Go to the corn fields and talk to the Stinker in the top right corner of the area.
Collect the purple key that is supposed to unlock the Creepy Keep lookout tower.
Go up The Foggy Mountains and talk to Gaboonga.
Play the Blue Shard and press the buttons in this order: red green purple yellow orange blue indigo.
Immediately talk to Gaboonga and immediately answer the two dialogue boxes.
Collect the blue shard then play Thwart the Thwarts.
As soon as the adventure begins immediately pause and save.
Either load the Blink save from earlier or step onto the nearby Brr charger.
Load the save you just made.
Quickly cast Star Magic on the space left of the Thwart. If you miss this then just load the save again. The way I like to do it is, as soon as the game has loaded, pause then press the gloves in the top left corner (yes, while the game is paused) then resume then just click on the floor left of the Thwart.
Charge gloves with Brr then stand three spaces left of the yellow gate.
Cast Brr onto the lower Thwart.
Follow the bridge path and to the star.
Collect the other blue shard.
Return to the plains and enter Wondertown through the east side (you will appear left of the StarGates).
Talk to Patooters twice and talk about Mushroom Key then collect the mushroom key.
Return to Mushroom Grove then unlock the remaining mushroom gates.
Complete The Red Shard then talk to Wysp.
Collect the Temple Ruins key from Morklin at Morklin's Museum.
Go to temple ruins and without playing adventures go across the blue transporter to the rainbow pool.
Use the key you collected in the corn fields to unlock the purple gate here.
Muzozavr
Rainbow Spirit Chaser
Posts: 5643
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:55 pm

Post by Muzozavr » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:37 pm

billy bob wrote:various amazingness
OH GOD WHAT :lol: :lol: :lol:

Epic "The Magic Gloves" trick is epic, but YOU ACTUALLY GOT A RED KEY NOW. Even if this isn't actually faster this is absolutely amazing route discovery overall. I'm stunned.
Rest in peace, Kym. I hardly knew ya.
Rest in peace, Marinus. A bright star, you were ahead of me on my own tracks of thought. I miss you.
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