Issue #3 Feedback

Discussion related to the Midnight Synergy newsletter.
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Robbie
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Post by Robbie » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:39 am

Destructible Walls
Going along with the bomb theme, you could have wall sections that could be destroyed by bombs to reveal either items or secret passage ways - maybe allow for a variation in texture to indicate that there's something different about the wall.

From a level creator perspective you could have a whole section of destructable wall behind which could be a map or something similar which requires the whole to be viewable to make sense... dunno, just a thought.

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Last edited by Robbie on Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by wonderland01 » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:57 am

A fancy teleporting system that makes some type of music. :) :D
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Post by Robbie » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:07 am

Destructible Walls 2 & Power Boots
Maybe similar to destructible floor tile you could have wall pieces that take a couple of hits to be destroyed…

In addition to the notes I made on page 2 regarding the boots – particularly the David Beckham specials… Dave might not like you using his name :roll: – maybe change the name to Power Boots! – that has a nice ring to it. As an option to using bombs, say if you had Power Boots, you could just kick the wall however many times to do the deed - no boots, stubbed toe… ouch! that’s gotta hurt

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Cool

Post by paulm12 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:25 am

Like everything, but as we all know, Patrick IS hiding SOMETHING from us...
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Post by Robbie » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:00 am

Program Recommendations
Hi Pat, I know it might be a little early in development & these may or may not be on the cards but just out of curiosity are there any programs you’d recommend (cheap :wink: ) for animated textures & animated models?

I did come across www.blender3d.org which is free/open source - haven't checked it our in any depth at all - looks after animated models...

Are there particular file formats etc?...

Be nice to look into it if there's a chance they'll make it into the program.

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Post by Robbie » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:57 am

Sound Suggestions 2
On page one I mentioned about being able to set music & sound effects on a tile by tile basis.

Just thinking about that would give you a headache. Probably a better suggestion would be to allow custom music for an area as a whole - remembering the point made about being able to open up new areas (eg in a town area, go into a house model, area closes down, opens up new 'area' inside house... etc). Therefore each 'area' could have it's own (theme) music. This would avoid having to manually set the music for every single tile & the program having to read & possibly change music/slowing down the game etc etc (just a bad bad idea... sorry) while still being able to add atmosphere to each particular area of a level.

Sound effects dependant on situation could still be set on a per tile basis & possible removed on completion of a task - eg say there is a non-player character that is blocking a path way. A sound file could be in place while they are there. After completing a task set by them, they dissapear or move off to the side & the sound file for that spot could be discontinued. I don't know what problems that present programmatically (? is that a word?) but it's just a thought.

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Post by Robbie » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:54 am

More on Bombs
Just another doodle – bomb image.

I had in mind a bit of variation in the bomb appearances depending on the strength of each bomb.

* * * * * *

Big Bomb – obviously oversized, big eyebrows in a frown with arms folded (I was thinking of some of those rather unfriendly blocks from the Mario games…)

Middle Bomb – middle sized, younger looking but trying to appear tough

Baby Bomb – smallest – big eyes – something like this doodle

Timer – wise looking maybe with a clock/timer of some sort – Einstein looking – grey moustache.

* * * * * *

All of them sitting down – maybe legs kicking – ie they can’t get up

When they are set & ready to go off a countdown timer appears on screen eg 3 (fades), 2 (fades), 1 (fades), BOOM!

Robbie :D

Oh… and I know I’ve plugged them before but if you want a good set of photoshop/paintshop pro plugins – check out www.redfieldplugins.com
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Post by Midnight Synergy » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:29 pm

Robbie wrote:Hi Pat, I know it might be a little early in development & these may or may not be on the cards but just out of curiosity are there any programs you’d recommend (cheap :wink: ) for animated textures & animated models?
Too early to tell what kind of customizability will make it into the game. The editor right now is built to be <i>insanely</i> flexible, but I don't know yet if/when/what/who/huh will make it into the final version.

For programs, I really just use the bare-bones Milkshape 3d... for animated models I'm using the .b3d format right now.
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Post by wonderland01 » Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:42 am

I would like it if it said you could create your own adventure. You can group levels into worlds, boy, that would be great. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Post by ben-09 » Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:52 pm

this is my frends idea:fire bot(it's the same as a z-bot but it shoots fireballs :)
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New Ideas

Post by paulm12 » Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:53 pm

Chomper Ideas
Chomper Chompers:
Little green chompers that chast red + gold chompers; don't get in its way...Destroyes chompers when chomped- chompers don't run away from them

Giant Chompers
The bigger ones can chomp boxes up; the smaller ones push boxes

Smart Chomper:
Is, well smart, He knows to time spikes and go AROUND walls :lol:

Step Chomper: moves a step when you take a step

Closer Chomper: goes to the closest stinker; stump him by putting stinkers the same distance away form him;then he will freese

Other Enimies

Missles: Push a special Gate and PHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHEW untill blowing up a wall or flieng off the course

Hungry: Gobbels up certain or ALL the boxes it can find(It can't kill you)

Angry: shoots A FIRE ball at you if you are in front or back or side of him

New Bottons
Rainbow Botton: Hit it and it opens ALL the selected gates

Coin (or gate) botton: Opens And gives you all rainbow Coins, Bonus Coins ete

Triangle Button Hit it once ON hit it again OFF

New Pushables
Meatal Prisims: (use 'em more than once)

Crate:only Assigned stinkers that can push it

Bomb: Touch it and you have about 3-10 set seconds to set it before it blows up 1by1 or 3by3 squares

Chest:(or trunck) Blow it up or put it on elec. or spickes to destroy Might have something helpful like a few coins or a hint or a nasty surprise like a chomper

Unwanted Box: Just like a reg box but ya can't push it in water or other things

Reac. Bomb: Push agenst unwanted box or frigile wall and then push the switch BOOM

Boulder-box: 3 sides as a boulder, 1 as a box. Land the box side in water
and-wala-it floats

Magnatics: Get the right sides together, and they pull wherever, push the wrong sides together, you're not a happy camper...

Other Stuff

Snitch: Moves around really fast; capture it in a corridor, and get 1,000 points and a bounus powerup or a hint

Fragile Wall: Can't push it Anywhere, put something in it and blow it up:
You get the object.

Oil: put a bomb near it and it's in flames...


REALLY cracked walls: make a boulder hit, BOOM where is

Gum: anything stuck will not move(besides you) in any more than a square beyond where it's at

Cannons: Load and fire yourself[/i]
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Post by Robbie » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:25 am

New Areas Visual
Just a GIF for the entering new areas thing.

It's a bit crude but the idea is there.

One thing I forgot to add was a name for the area appearing briefly at the bottom then fading just after you enter/re-enter an area much in the same way that a level name does currently.

Robbie :D
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Post by ben-09 » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:53 am

heres another idea,green shadow stinkers thay shoot fireballs in all directions when your not in line with them :lol:
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more

Post by szai14 » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:34 pm

what about green sticky cubes but when they make a wall you can still push it and a x block it can no be distroyed in eany way and its like a prisem but it turns fire in to ice so if stinky is in the way it will gust go past him a winged box when it is pushed into water lava nothing it will fly across intil it hits the floor
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Post by ben-09 » Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:21 pm

great ideas sazi14 :D
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Post by wonderland01 » Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:32 pm

What aboutBonus Levels filled with bonus points and a goal! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: more

Post by paulm12 » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:24 am

szai14 wrote:what about green sticky cubes but when they make a wall you can still push
Pushing the wall? The whole thing? I can't belive I didn't think of that

New Box:Ice:melts 10 pushes or seconds untill it makes a water tile.
New box:Ice2 Push it 3 times in a row ind it will slide 3 pushes. push it into A fire thing and it turnes to water.
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Post by Midnight Synergy » Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:41 am

My goodness, you guys are on a roll! Some great ideas in there - esp. for a potential v4.00 for RTW after the "new Wonderland" is done. A few things also sound a little like what I have planend for the "new Wonderland" (which, I hope, will be more sucessful than "new coke" ;)).
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Post by Muzozavr » Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:43 am

I think I posted this idea, but can't find it now, so will repeat.

Steel boulder -- boulder that crushes steel boxes. Very heavy, needs four to create a bridge. Can be in lava like steel boxes. Only stops if there is a wall or another stell boulder in the way.
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Post by Robbie » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:42 pm

New Areas 03
This is probably stating the obvious Pat (& if it wasn't we'll be none the wiser :wink: ) but in catering for the New Areas idea should it go ahead there would really need to be the ability to specify where in the level you end up & allow for multiple entrances/exits within an area - ie from a main area, entering into another area & from that area, entering into yet another area.

For example, for say a 3-story house - on the middle level there would be 2 exits/entrances, 1 to the upper level, 1 to a lower level. On exiting to either one & then returning there would need to be a distinction between the two.

While developing the insanely flexible editor it would be great to allow for more than just 2 in the event someone wants to make x number of exits from an area eg. a town where there are x no. of houses that can be entered.

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Post by Midnight Synergy » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:10 am

Yes, the plan is to have these types of multiple passages to different areas. I only have vague details on how it will work in my head right now... there are still several logical & gameplay issues to work out.

(But for now I'm still working on the mechanics inside a single area.)
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Post by Robbie » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:09 am

That sounds great :D . Just glad it's you & not me :wink:

This thought may be in the realm of fantasy but I thought it might be worth posting....

Transportation 2
What if in lieu of other transport on a level (something I mentioned on page 1 - and I think others have mentioned it as well - rafts & the like), there were alternative options like paying fare for fixed travel?

Just as an example I grabbed a photo of our girls bath turtle - you had a turtle starting from a fixed point which travels along a (possibly) fixed line determined by the level creator to another fixed point for x number of tokens/gold. Alternatively you could have a boat or other modes of transport depending on whether you are crossing lava (?), air (balloon), space (rocket ship), desert (train) etc.

Alternatively (to the fixed line), you could be allowed free transport (to travel anywhere) for a set amount of time - possible bringing into play, dangers from enemys requiring extra strategy. When time runs out the transport stays put until you pay additional fare etc.

Back to you Pat.

Robbie :D
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Post by Loirae » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:11 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by Robbie » Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:27 pm

Yep Loirae, we're just having fun here waiting for the next tidbits from Patrick... :lol:

Cutscenes 2
Would be good if they were available for a number of different situations
- starting of a level
- ending of a level
- entering/exiting areas
- picking up special items/opening chest (if available)
- completion of tasks within a level
- entering/exiting a tile (there may be situations where entering/exiting a tile warrents an update on story line say for example where a particular milestone is reached within a level)
- npc communication/task assignment/task completion/reward

Obviously they'd be used sparingly (& not every 5 seconds), but it would be good to have the options available.

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Post by Lillie » Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:44 pm

You are in the wrong job Robbie - maybe you should start charging for your excellent creative services :wink:
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Post by wonderland01 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:38 am

What about invisible teleporters that apear silver and you don't know where they will take you. You could create hard puzzles that way. :) Stinker Rating 7 out of 10
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Post by loof101 » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:43 pm

I would like these please

more color link spheres,gates and teleporters

a red z-bot if you touch it you ride it, when it explodes you go a tile ahead.

liquid sticky cube if stickycube ends up on it becomes solid. (also needs a transporter 4 it.)

Rainbow box floats in anything and can withstand anything (BESIDES landing on a wall)

Steel box transporter, It is like a normal Transporter but if it goes over a sunken steel box it turns into a steel box.
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Post by Robbie » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:17 am

Thanks Lillie, I'm going to have to stick to my day job though as the 'eternal gratitude' (that Patrick is currently offering) to Australian dollars conversion rate is pretty low :cry: :wink:

Editor 2
Just some observations regarding the editor Pat again which you may have already begun the process of developing...

To encourage more variety & use of models/custom textures I think it would be beneficial to have some sort of preview setup in the editor itself with regards to backgrounds/textures/models/music/sfx.

Again I don’t really know how easy it would be to incorporate a model viewer & whether having a combination of animated/static models makes the challenge even greater… I think it would result in greater use of them. And whether previewing music/sound fx is a possibility. While obviously there are programs to do both of these individually, it would smooth the process.

I’d imagine that background & texture previewing would be a simpler programming task though how complex animated textures would prove is another thing.
Janet provided a great summary of in-game textures/backgrounds at
http://pcpuzzle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3617
again, it would run much smoother if previewing where handled here.

Just out of curiosity, could we be able to have/create texture packs? At the moment there are 3 additional floor tiles available (B-D). Would it be a stretch to extend this to say Z? And say on each area in addition to being able to select a background/music score, there were the ability to select a ‘texture pack’ & utilize up to 26 separate floor tiles in any given area? From a creator perspective you would have a folder name with (up to) 26 jpg files for example named a.jpg to z.jpg - with each file say at any no of given resolutions (32x32, 64x64 up to 512x512 or whatever) providing the file sizes within a pack are consistent the program would scale to the floor tile area. This would allow for greater or lesser degrees of detail though again how the program handles differing resolutions between floor/models etc I have no idea. From a level creator perspective, you might be able to select from a list of texture packs one specifically for each area which might read from a list of subdirectories. Clicking on any given directory/pack would bring up a preview of all available tiles within each pack. After selecting & starting to apply, I don’t know how much would fit on screen or whether you’d have a scroll bar to see/select textures within a pack. Then if possible in the preview area rather than just letters (blank) - Z apprearing, the actual texture maybe along with a small letter would show - the letter being small enough to see the overall effect be large enough to be recognisable.

The other consideration would be do you make a distinction between texture packs for floors/walls & their respective types (fake walls/destructible walls/limited use floor tiles) or do these become a part of a single texture pack incorporating all the different aspects?

Also with regards to the teleport tiles which are static as opposed to say conveyor belts which are animated, might it be possible to customize these as well so rather than standing out as they tend to do, they can be customized to ‘fit in’ with the rest of the textures.

Boxes
Been playing Zelda Wind Waker (I know I’m behind… only just purchased it) of late & I came up against this area I had no idea what to do (bought it on ebay & it was minus the manual…) – little did I realize that you could ‘pull’ blocks etc. I don’t know how that would affect gameplay/strategy but that could be an additional ability – pulling things rather than just pushing.

Robbie :D

PS: Looking forward to the next update/screenshot too however early it may be :wink:
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Post by Robbie » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:00 am

Customising Viewpoint 2
This visual is kinda what I had in mind on the viewpoint issue – it shows very the very basic rotational & zooming ability.

The initial viewpoint would be set at roughly where it currently is.
When you move the mouse up to the top right hand corner (or wherever), a transparent (?) guide comes up with buttons – in, out, rotate right, rotate left & reset (which I haven’t included)

In & out take you through say 5 or so stages ranging from 1st person 3D to overhead.

Rotate left & right would rotate the game screen through 90 degree increments. For example click on the rotate left button & the screen would zoom around 90d to the left as in the animation. When you reach this point, you could continue playing from this view point and the key pressing would respond as if this were the original position – ie pressing the up arrow will move you up the screen. Rotate to the left & pressing the up arrow would still move you up the screen – but relative to your original view you would be moving right.

Still have the option of using Alt X (?)

Reset button would reset the view to the original starting position.

Would be good to be able to set the original starting camera angle (height/rotational position). In that way you might be able to set the opening view to say a first person perspective of an NPC, or a sign, or a view of something relative to setting the opening scene. Possibility of doing this entering/reentering an area?

Is this what you had in mind Pauline?

Robbie :D
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Post by Robbie » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:26 am

Level Preview/Title Screen
Just an additional thought.

What if when creating & saving a level there be the option of attaching a jpg file (x by x pixels)

This could be a screenshot with a title/author name or even a title with a drawing representing what the level is about.

When submitting the level it is attached to the level file some how or alternatively there can be no picture (make it optional).

When you are selecting a level for play & say scrolling through the custom levels, clicking on a name would bring up that picture file & serve as a visual reminder of that level. Maybe there could be a mark next to levels that have a title screen attached & if there is none then the preview screen could be just blank. Bringing up the opening scene in lieu of a picture file here might not be practical as the program would have to load the scene info... The fact that these picture come up might be an encouragement for creators to get something together for these previews.

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