Do you think it is a good idea being unable to edit posts?

[billy bob]

I hope it is OK to do this. If it isn't then moderators can lock this.

[tyteen4a03]

It didn't work well, as we all can see.

I will soon request Patrick to give us the freedom to edit again (on a Saturday, when he has less work to do)

[Marinus]

Yes, it was a good idea.

It is to make people think better before posting, and that way to increase the quality of the posts. Also it is to avoid confusion; What's written is written, instead of being changed afterwards which can cause confusion. And it make it impossible to say something, change it, and say: "I never said that".

But, as a well known Dutch football player used to say: "Each advantage has its disadvantage". It happens sometimes, even if people think carefully before pressing "submit", that they think of something else to add. But... what does it matter if it happens once in a while that someone makes a double post? Is there a law that people should pay $20 for each double post? I think if it happens very often, it can be annoying, but if it only happens a single time, what's the problem?

[billy bob]

It is to make people think better before posting, and that way to increase the quality of the posts.

I don't think it has. And even if it did, it isn't the way to do it; it causes more problems than solves them.

It is to make people think better before posting, and that way to increase the quality of the posts. Also it is to avoid confusion; What's written is written, instead of being changed afterwards which can cause confusion. And it make it impossible to say something, change it, and say: "I never said that".

That's never happened.



If you want to add something to the first post of the topic to say "Go to the bottom of the page to see some pictures." or if you said "I am online on there." but you are no longer online there then you want to delete it then you can't do that.

[Marinus]

I don't think it has.

Then see here: http://www.pcpuzzle.com/forum/viewtopic ... 280#263280

it causes more problems than solves them.

So, what problems does it cause?

That's never happened.

Never say "never", and certainly not without any evidence. I remember it happened pretty often that people changed things afterwards.

If you want to add something to the first post of the topic to say "Go to the bottom of the page to see some pictures." or if you said "I am online on there." but you are no longer online there then you want to delete it then you can't do that.

This is a forum, not a chatroom. And everyone knows that the latest post is at the bottom of the page.

[billy bob]

I don't think it has.

Then see here: http://www.pcpuzzle.com/forum/viewtopic ... 280#263280

What? It didn't happen there.

it causes more problems than solves them.

So, what problems does it cause?

Posts will be worse because you can't edit them. They haven't improved.

It is to make people think better before posting, and that way to increase the quality of the posts. Also it is to avoid confusion; What's written is written, instead of being changed afterwards which can cause confusion. And it make it impossible to say something, change it, and say: "I never said that".

That's never happened.

Never say "never", and certainly not without any evidence. I remember it happened pretty often that people changed things afterwards.

Yes, they edited their posts. That was either adding some things or deleted some things or both. Every time someone edits they're post they don't have to point out that they have edited it. Posts are edited for good reasons.

If you want to add something to the first post of the topic to say "Go to the bottom of the page to see some pictures." or if you said "I am online on there." but you are no longer online there then you want to delete it then you can't do that.

This is a forum, not a chatroom. And everyone knows that the latest post is at the bottom of the page.

No, I meant they say on this forum that they are online there, and the other example, I don't think you understood. I meant that if you want to edit the first post, which all those who haven't seen the topic before will read, to say that a picture of, for example, a game you have made (and therefore the topic is about the game you have made), are at the bottom of the page, then you can't.

[~xpr'd~]

I agree with Marinus, it was supposed to make people think more about their posts but it's only caused people to double or triple post or ask mods to change their posts for them. It was a good intention but it didn't work out.

[Marinus]

What? It didn't happen there.

No idea what you mean. I just pointed out what's the reason for unable the edit option, and when you seemed to disagree I showed that Patrick said about the same.

Posts will be worse because you can't edit them.

If you make your post good at once, it doesn't need to be edited, so posts can't be worse by no-editing. However, they can be worse or confusing by editing.

Posts are edited for good reasons.

There's no evidence for that. Perhaps sometimes it happened that way, but sometimes not. However, if you make another post, giving an explanation, for example: "In that post I said this, but I don't mean exactly that; actually I mean this." then it will be more clear. But when they simply edit it, we'll never know what they edited, and why they edited it. Also some people may have seen the post before editing, and other people after editing, which also cause confusion.


If someone posts on a topic I'm watching, I get a notification mail, then I go look at the new post. If that person edits the post after I watch it, perhaps I never see the edit. But when they make a new post I get a new notification mail, so I can see both.

No, I meant they say on this forum that they are online there,

You may ask Patrick, but I'm 99,99% sure that that's not the way he intended this forum for. However, if you want to say that you are online for example on the IRC, then it's OK in my opinion. And everyone knows that you don't stay online forever. You also can say: "I'm online now, perhaps about half an hour"

I meant that if you want to edit the first post, which all those who haven't seen the topic before will read,

If people who haven't see the topic before, read the first post, and they find the topic interesting, they probably will read the entire topic, or at least the last posts, so they will see the pictures. If they don't find the topic interesting at all, they probably won't like to see the pictures anyhow.


____________________

XPR, do you think it happens pretty much that people triple post, or very often double posts, and do you think that's a problem? If so, why? And if it happens once in a week that someone asks you to edit something, does it bother you?

[tyteen4a03]

Another idea is let users edit their post, but only on their first 30 minute after posting. But that would require edit of the source code, which Patrick probably won't agree.

[billy bob]

There would still be problems anyway.

[Marinus]

But that would require edit of the source code, which Patrick probably won't agree.

I think so too. But if he would like to edit the source code, perhaps it would be even better to make it that way that editing is possible, but it's also possible to see what's edited. I believe you said once that's also possible on some forums.

There are also forums where editing is possible, but users must give a reason why they edit. I think if users must explain why they edit, they probably will edit less, then if they don't need to.

[Technos72]

FAIL. I missed the no button.

Thou meant to say no that it's not a good idea to not edit posts

[Nobody]

I was actually going to make this.

[MyNameIsKooky]

Sometimes I miss a typo and I see it after I actually post it. I want to fix them, but I can't edit.

I suppose I sometimes do press the "submit" button too quickly, but I suppose that's what happens after you press it OVER 9000 times.

[~xpr'd~]

XPR, do you think it happens pretty much that people triple post, or very often double posts, and do you think that's a problem? If so, why? And if it happens once in a week that someone asks you to edit something, does it bother you?

Well, the double posts are slightly annoying, but they're too frequent (due to not being able to edit) to merge every dp. Triple posts aren't as common but their annoyance almost makes up for it. It's just one of my pet peeves D: It doesn't bother me if someone asks me to edit something once in a while, but it got annoying since (for no reason) a cluster of people wanting mods to edit their posts happened in a short time. I'm glad to do it, but if it happens too much it gets annoying. Being a mod is fun but it's kinda hard sometimes.

[Marinus]

Technos, even if you would be able to edit posts, it's still possible to click the wrong poll-option, and you can't change it.


Kooky, no one will look angry at you, if you make a typo in your post once in a while.


XPR, if I understand you right you say: "Double posts are too frequent to merge all of them", well I agree, but I think it's not really necessary to merge them. So I think we can say: "So many double posts are slightly annoying".

Triple posts aren't as common but their annoyance almost makes up for it. It's just one of my pet peeves D:

I guess both of the bold parts are expressions or sayings in English, which for me as an outsider are not quite clear, but after a search, I found that they are bothering you more then other people (pet peeves). But well, they aren't as common.

but it got annoying since (for no reason) a cluster of people wanting mods to edit their posts happened in a short time.

I agree and I would have the same. If I was in that situation I would say: "Then I suggest you think better next time. I'm not moderator to correct all your mistakes".

[Sammy_Bro]

Why should editing be here? So when posting games, people can edit the topic post so they can add the demo/final version of it, so people don't have to scroll through the pages.

Also, with editing MyNameIsKooky can bring back the Enclosed Instruction Guide, that is COMPLETELY funny, so people can read it and get anti-stress or something, that is great also.

And Marinus, I think double-posting is quite annoying, and I want people to tell others that it was a mistake by editing the post.

[Marinus]

So when posting games, people can edit the topic post so they can add the demo/final version of it, so people don't have to scroll through the pages.

If you want to read a topic, you also want to read the latest posts don't you? And you don't need to scroll down, you simply can click the little square after the name of the one with the latest post.

And Marinus, I think double-posting is quite annoying, and I want people to tell others that it was a mistake by editing the post.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. I just wanted to say that people should think better before posting in order to make no mistakes, so they neither need to double post, nor editing their post.

[Sammy_Bro]

So when posting games, people can edit the topic post so they can add the demo/final version of it, so people don't have to scroll through the pages.

If you want to read a topic, you also want to read the latest posts don't you? And you don't need to scroll down, you simply can click the little square after the name of the one with the latest post. But what if people choose the wrong page, and there is OVER 100 pages? Who would want to go through that?

And Marinus, I think double-posting is quite annoying, and I want people to tell others that it was a mistake by editing the post.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. I just wanted to say that people should think better before posting in order to make no mistakes, so they neither need to double post, nor editing their post. Nevermind.

[Marinus]

But what if people choose the wrong page, and there is OVER 100 pages? Who would want to go through that?

If you click on that little square you go to the latest post, so you can't go to the wrong page.

[~xpr'd~]

But what if the download was in the middle of the topic? If there's a lot of pages it might be hard to get to the middle.

[Marinus]

That's right. But I think that only happens if you've been on a holiday for 2 months in the middle of the Sahara desert where's no internet connection. And I'm quite sure, that there will be a friendly person who will post you the link, if you ask for.

[Sammy_Bro]

Just what I was thinking, ~xpr'd~. Just what I was thinking.

[DEEMAN223344]

You must add a NYOOOOOOOO option.

[Sammy_Bro]

*facepalm*

Warning: Unable to change poll option. Trying again...nope.

...=3

[Marinus]

You must add a NYOOOOOOOO option.

And you must do it NAOOOOO, meaaauw, woof woof.


Just thought of an alternative for the latest demo of a game: Make a document in Google Docs, post the link to your document in the first post of your game-topic, and put the link to your latest game-update in the Google Document.

[dlcs18]

Not being able to edit posts is really annoying. There weren't any problems with being able to edit them.
It's just... ugh, it's like saying "make your post perfect on the first try and if you don't well tough it's there now you can't do anything about it!!!"
At this point it's already shown that it doesn't do any good. All it does is make people frustrated and have to post again if they want to add something or say that they messed up on their post and this is what they really meant or that they made a typo. You can still miss typos and mistakes if you try and proof-read your post and then you might notice it later. (It has happened to me.) The edit button should be available for fixing the mistakes or adding something to your post.

*hopes he doesn't think of something else to add after submitting this post*

[Marinus]

It has happened to me.

Of course, and it happened to me too. But not everyday, only once in a month or so. And there's no one to blame you or me for making a double post once in a month, and there's no one to blame you or me for making tow tyop's in a week.

hopes he doesn't think of something else to add after submitting this post

Nevermind, you don't need to double post, since I posted in the meantime.

[billy bob]

That's right. But I think that only happens if you've been on a holiday for 2 months in the middle of the Sahara desert where's no internet connection. And I'm quite sure, that there will be a friendly person who will post you the link, if you ask for.

1. I doubt anyone will bother.
2. I'd rather not bother someone else.
3. It doesn't work if no one helpful of this is online.

Basically, if someone does link you to where it is (which is improbable), then they will reply hours later.

But what if people choose the wrong page, and there is OVER 100 pages? Who would want to go through that?

If you click on that little square you go to the latest post, so you can't go to the wrong page.

But how would they know that it is at the end anyway?

What? It didn't happen there.

No idea what you mean. I just pointed out what's the reason for unable the edit option, and when you seemed to disagree I showed that Patrick said about the same.

No, I meant an example of people thinking about their posts better.

Posts will be worse because you can't edit them.

If you make your post good at once, it doesn't need to be edited, so posts can't be worse by no-editing. However, they can be worse or confusing by editing.

How have they ever been worse or confusing? And it's not just about making your post "good". For example, see the two previous examples I made, and here is another: you create a topic which contains a poll. Later in that topic, someone else suggests another option for the poll. But you can't add it obviously.

Posts are edited for good reasons.

There's no evidence for that. Perhaps sometimes it happened that way, but sometimes not. However, if you make another post, giving an explanation, for example: "In that post I said this, but I don't mean exactly that; actually I mean this." then it will be more clear. But when they simply edit it, we'll never know what they edited, and why they edited it. Also some people may have seen the post before editing, and other people after editing, which also cause confusion.

People edit their posts because they think the new version is better. If they aren't, which means they're trying to make their post worse, then they need to be warned or suspended.

No, I meant they say on this forum that they are online there,

You may ask Patrick, but I'm 99,99% sure that that's not the way he intended this forum for. However, if you want to say that you are online for example on the IRC, then it's OK in my opinion. And everyone knows that you don't stay online forever. You also can say: "I'm online now, perhaps about half an hour"

I meant something like "Here is a site: (link here), I am online there!". I can't say "I'm online now, perhaps about half an hour" though, because when someone reads it after half an hour later they might think that he or she is online for half an hour "then on". And you might not know how long you are going to be online on there anyway.

I meant that if you want to edit the first post, which all those who haven't seen the topic before will read,

If people who haven't see the topic before, read the first post, and they find the topic interesting, they probably will read the entire topic, or at least the last posts, so they will see the pictures. If they don't find the topic interesting at all, they probably won't like to see the pictures anyhow.

I completely disagree. I think there are lots of people who will download the attachment but not look at any of the posts below. Just like the people who download levels from the "Return To Wonderland Custom Levels" area but don't post comments.

[Marinus]

1. I doubt anyone will bother. check it out
2. I'd rather not bother someone else. Why not? You're doing it all the time posting on this forum.
3. It doesn't work if no one helpful of this is online.

Basically, if someone does link you to where it is (which is improbable), then they will reply hours later.

Those few hours don't make much difference after those two months.

But how would they know that it is at the end anyway?

They don't need to know. As I said before: If you want to read a topic, you want to read everything. If you don't want to read everything, but only something, you'll never know where that something is, no matter if editing is enabled or not.

No, I meant an example of people thinking about their posts better.

I didn't see that you were asking for an example. And I'm not giving an example anyhow. Just look at all the situations where people want to edit their posts. Examples enough!

How have they ever been worse or confusing?

I have explained that in one of my previous posts. The one I talked about notification emails.

For example, see the two previous examples I made,

I don't know which 2 examples you're talking about.

you create a topic which contains a poll. Later in that topic, someone else suggests another option for the poll. But you can't add it obviously.

So you really wanted to add an option: NYOOOOO ? If you would have done that, it would have been unfair toward the people who voted before you added that option. You'd better make an entirely new poll then. But well, polls are useless anyways.

People edit their posts because they think the new version is better. If they aren't, which means they're trying to make their post worse, then they need to be warned or suspended.

I only understand the bold part, but I've no idea what you mean with the rest. About the bold part: Then they haven't thought good enough before posting, otherwise they can make a new post.

I meant something like "Here is a site: (link here), I am online there!". I can't say "I'm online now, perhaps about half an hour" though, because when someone reads it after half an hour later they might think that he or she is online for half an hour "then on". And you might not know how long you are going to be online on there anyway.

Quite clear what you meant. As I said before: thats not what this forum is for. Besides, if they want to see you online there, they can check it out. If they won't, they don't bother about how long you are online. Considering your IRC topic, they don't bother about it anyways.

I completely disagree. I think there are lots of people who will download the attachment but not look at any of the posts below. Just like the people who download levels from the "Return To Wonderland Custom Levels" area but don't post comments.

And you care about those people who download your levels, but never say anything about it?

In that case: see my alternative with the Google document. Also, don't forget what Patricks intention with this Discussion board; not only to download, but also to discuss.