My Turn, new rules

bob roest · Post by **bob roest** » Thu May 15, 2008 1:16 am

kiki wrote:I just went thru all 749 of them and 247 are very messy, Sorry!

Apology accepted.

bob roest · Post by **bob roest** » Thu May 15, 2008 1:22 am

jcvalcar2 wrote:Can I add another rule to your list? Once you post a level, check back on your thread to make certain that there isn't anything wrong with what was posted. Some level makers ignore their thread once it's been posted.

I'm not sure if this can be a rule, Cathy.

However, I'm reasonably certain that Lutz is working on a 'Code of Conduct' list for level-makers that this might fit into perfectly.

rescuefire · Post by **rescuefire** » Thu May 15, 2008 1:32 am

kiki wrote: I am guilty of designing messy levels, I just went thru all 749 of them and 247 are very messy, Sorry!

Gee Keeks are you being Mr. Sassypants?

kiki · Post by **kiki** » Thu May 15, 2008 1:54 am

Yes Robyn, I'm just goofing around.
I think Bob's rules are right on, I'm just referring to Mqdar's referring to my levels as annoying and messy, I was wondering if he played them all or is he judging on the few that he tried to solve and couldn't.

bob roest · Post by **bob roest** » Thu May 15, 2008 1:57 am

dlcs18 wrote:15. Don't make your level impossible!!!

I missed this post earlier but this should probably be the number one rule of all time!

Cathy is this what you meant by returning to check on your level? If it is, then you and dlcs18 are absolutely right on the money!!

Never, ever, never, ever, ever, ever post a level that you haven't played yourself to make sure it works!

Excellent rule...well done.

rescuefire · Post by **rescuefire** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:07 am

Well I'll tell ya, I like messy, hate unsolvable. Simple me thinks

Dizzy1 · Post by **Dizzy1** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:20 am

kiki wrote:Is it because you can't solve them or am I just a crappy designer, Thanks!

Kiki, your levels are difficult sometimes, but definitely not annoying, or crappy, or messy! Maybe you were joking, but this really bothered me.

Because you are the BEST!

kiki · Post by **kiki** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:32 am

Thanks Diz, Your a sweetie for saying that.

mqdar · Post by **mqdar** » Thu May 15, 2008 3:23 am

kiki wrote:Is it because you can't solve them or am I just a crappy designer, Thanks!

You're definately not a bad designer kiki! You're levels are just a bit too complex for me sometimes, with all those objects lying around. This is 100% about me. And yes, you must be joking.

I just can't solve them (most of the time. I've solved a few, and then forgotten the solution.)! That's why I like Mark's deviously simple levels, which don't have all that stuff waiting around in a twisted jumble.

bordeaux · Post by **bordeaux** » Thu May 15, 2008 3:47 am

Bob, good post. While I personally agree with many of your 'rules', I would add the rule--"Have fun". Play the levels with elements you enjoy and degree of difficulty that doesn't take you to the edge--ignore the others. Comment on any level you really enjoyed without regard for who made it and don't forget all the hard work of those that design textures and models. If you are not comfortable commenting, then don't because this is supposed to be fun. You will find your niche because that is the way the world works.

Michelle

jcvalcar2 · Post by **jcvalcar2** » Thu May 15, 2008 12:21 pm

bob roest wrote:Cathy is this what you meant by returning to check on your level? If it is, then you and dlcs18 are absolutely right on the money!!

Never, ever, never, ever, ever, ever post a level that you haven't played yourself to make sure it works!

Excellent rule...well done.

Right on the money

Boppelist · Post by **Boppelist** » Thu May 15, 2008 12:54 pm

Wow!
I don't think I have broken any rule Bob said before, maybe because I only made 2 RTW levels!

I think 3D mazes, impossible levels and hidden mazes are annoying, but the Wood texture and Qookie's trampoline jump is fine for me.

tyteen4a03 · Post by **tyteen4a03** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:00 pm

I will stop my post here and NOT follow all the rules post here because I don't
agree to ALL rules here.

popo · Post by **popo** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:17 pm

tyteen4a03 wrote:I will stop my post here and NOT follow all the rules post here because I don't
agree to ALL rules here.

Rules aren't there to be agreed with Ty, they're there to be followed.

Liz Mayhew · Post by **Liz Mayhew** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:24 pm

I agree with Matt (dlcs18) that the #1 rule should be never to post a level that's impossible.
Test, test and re-test.
What I'm not so sure about is Robyn's comment that you should get someone else to play the level first to check for loopholes. This would take more time before posting the level, and I might not like any revisions someone else suggested. I know I'm one of the worst offenders when it comes to loopholes, but I know that my levels are all 100% solvable one way or another. Does it matter if different ways are found to solve a level? Personally I don't think so (but that's only because I'm not so good at making levels with only one solution).

l.wijsbroek · Post by **l.wijsbroek** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:40 pm

We have reached the point that al lot of people are apologising for making levels and comment on them. This way newbees will not comment on anything, they will be to afraight to say anything.

This should be a fun community with people all over the world talking to each other. Where else can you find this. Rules okee, but enough is enough. We sometimes complain that the young ones are to impulsive, me too, but do not gum out the old ones - sorry if the translation is not okee.
No I am not sorry everybody knows what I mean. And if we have to start our comments or what ever with sorry, than there is something very wrong.
Even one of our greatest levelmakers starts apologising. Kiki's levels are very good, although alot of them are for me unsolvable, but that is just my old brain. I just have a lot of admiration for KIKI and not just KIKI but also LAKEOWL. LILLIE, LIZ MAYHEW, DIZZY1, JVALCAR2 and so on , how they just come up with all the ideas to make these levels. I can't.

So please everybody, SHUT UP. of te wel, koppen dicht, dit draait op strond uit.
Even if you do not understand Dutch, everybody understands the last part.
Because everybodies mother will have said this when you were young.

groetjes

Lydia

Marinus · Post by **Marinus** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:44 pm

Volkomen mee eens / Totally agree with Lydia

Dizzy1 · Post by **Dizzy1** » Thu May 15, 2008 3:27 pm

Just three questions, for now:

Is someone working on a set of guidelines?

If we break the rules, do we go to prison?

Do we want to put the date in our level titles...or...not?

Liz Mayhew · Post by **Liz Mayhew** » Thu May 15, 2008 3:57 pm

I don't want a date on our level titles because we Brits do our dates a different way to you Merrycans, so it might lead to confusion.

rescuefire · Post by **rescuefire** » Thu May 15, 2008 5:20 pm

Me thinks this thread got a tad outta hand.

I like a lively discussion/debate don't get me wrong but I don't think Bob's intention was to SET THE RULES so to speak or be nasty.

Lizzie, I didn't mean folks should have someone else do their levels to check for loop holes. If I said that sorry. What I meant was to have someone else check your level if you are not going to, to be sure it is solvable. I like when levels have many ways to do them cuz I'm not bright enough to do them the intended way

It's fun to see what everyone thinks. Who likes what and who does what. Insults aren't necessary though. I think Kiki makes GREAT levels, he's one of my faves and ain't nobody gonna say different

Mahaloof · Post by **Mahaloof** » Thu May 15, 2008 5:27 pm

The Old Levels 'problem' might be solved if we'd have one field extra on the page, somewhere between "Author" and "Views" showing the "Date" of placement.

I think people should feel free to comment on older levels. If it's not by the truckload, that is...

A designer should state that a level is "Impossible", so we can all not-download it on a massive scale.

rescuefire · Post by **rescuefire** » Thu May 15, 2008 5:42 pm

LOL Great perspective

Liz Mayhew · Post by **Liz Mayhew** » Thu May 15, 2008 6:44 pm

Good idea Mahaloof!

I get a bit fed up when all the new levels are booted off Page 1 by multiple postings on very old levels.

Robyn - OK, I get what you meant now. So I can happily carry on making my loopy levels. That's all yer gonna get anyway.

Lillie · Post by **Lillie** » Thu May 15, 2008 7:27 pm

You are funny Bobster ..... or should we call you Sir Bobster

I do agree with some of your rules, although I really couldn't care less either way to be honest!

But I will have to abstain from a couple. Namely, Quookie in tramp levels - I totally love hearing her shrieks of joy in mid air - brilliant! My next level will star Qookie and will have lots of tramps - this I will dedicate to you Sir Bob (I might even make it Pacman style)

I will also continue to hide Loofster anywhere I like - me lurvers doing that! If anyone doesn't like it - poo off and don't play it!

Mahaloof wrote:I think people should feel free to comment on older levels. If it's not by the truckload, that is...

I agree with Mr Loofah (Hi Loofah, long time no see - hope you are well!

). Anyone can comment on any old level - it is their perogative to post when they like if they have enjoyed a level. The odd few hardly push newer levels into obscurity - I have never minded searching a couple of (hundred) pages down - it only takes a minute to scan through the level makers names to find a particular level!

Darshan - I think you used the wrong word to describe Kiki's levels ...... "annoying" is kinda rude don't you think?

Besides - have you actually ever commented on one of his levels before to let him know about your frustration and annoyance?

Personally, Kiki's levels are my faves

It would be really nice to have more people come forward and chat or introduce themselves, especially those who play levels and enjoy them. But of course it is not everyone's cup of tea - so that is cool!

Right - off to the Editor to see my mate Qookie

PS: Is it QUOOKIE or QOOKIE??????

dlcs18 · Post by **dlcs18** » Thu May 15, 2008 7:35 pm

It's Qookie

(Yay, my rule is the best one on the list xD

)

Blast!10 · Post by **Blast!10** » Thu May 15, 2008 8:01 pm

bob roest wrote:This is the first time I have ever started a post in this forum but I've had it up to here!

1. Simply because a level is new to you, that does not make it new to everyone else. I keep opening up the new levels page and there's stuff that Muzo did two years ago listed as New Level. They're great, BUT THEY AREN'T NEW LEVELS!! I have gone into the archives and played lots of the older stuff, I don't post on all of them because I know that it will push the new stuff down. And no I don't give a s..t if my stuff gets pushed to page 2, that's not why I make them.
I agree. That would be called "thread necromancy".

2. Enough with the 'wood' texture. If you're that incapable as a level-maker to pick one of the other default textures then don't post it!
"The Wood texture is ugly" is an opinion, not a fact. If you think it's ugly or has been used too much, it doesn't mean that everyone thinks the same thing and that Wood-texture levels should not be posted.

3. Do not, under any circumstances ever again post a level with a hidden maze...it's been done to death!
I agree.

4. Do not under any circumstances ever again post a level with a pac-man theme. Do I even need to say it.
I agree.

5. If you want to hex-edit the hell out of a level so that no one but you and your I.T. buddy have a clue as to what's going on, fine! But when you post it make mention of the fact that you have created a level that in actuality has very little bearing on the parameters of the game.
Once again, I agree.

6. 21 is the maximum number of boxes that you can put in a level that need to be pushed somewhere. I don't care if the generator spits out 5,000. 21 is all we'll push and even that's too many.
No comment

7. Unless you have posted somewhere between 500 to 600 levels you are not allowed to make a 3D level. With rare exception, they're annoying.
This is one of the weirdest rules I've ever heard. Your level count does NOT matter as much as your post count doesn't. Everyone is free to make any kind of level they want no matter how many levels they have made.

8. A level with piles of coileys and ghosts that you somehow have to get by with a truck-load of luck is not a level. It's crap.
Me agrees.

9. Doing the same level over and over again but with different textures and different names is not allowed. If you can only come up with one idea, so be it. There's no such thing as the 'Greatest Hits of Dexy's Midnight Runners'...'C'mon Eileen' was it!
Me agrees!

10. This is not a firm rule but the level should actually come on the screen before you have to do something. Trying to move 'Stinky' 3 seconds after you've turned your computer on is too soon!
Once again, I agree.

11. Mette put a lot of effort into creating a texture's list, use it to acknowledge someone's work. Don't worry about the model list, I find it confusing as well.
I agree, but I hardly use other people's textures.

12. If you have to make a level that requires lots and lots of tramp work, Qookie can't be the main character. The sound of that character jumping scares me and my cat.
Other people may think it's cute though.

13. Enough with the hidden coin in a false wall!
Unless the false wall is obvious.

That's it for now, if I think of something else I'll expand the list.

Have a nice day.

uneekrose · Post by **uneekrose** » Thu May 15, 2008 8:05 pm

I was always wondering how come the dates aren't above the authors name the way it is above last post, that would make it a lot easier to find new levels.

Loofah, good to see you back for a spell.

Really if there's any rules to be made it should be by our Wonderland creator, the rest of us have no real authority to impose rules. I believe it's a compliment for someone to play any of my levels and take the time to post. Sometimes you have to search a great deal to find an older level and I feel if your going to go thru all that trouble you may as well post.

I like loopy levels, it's interesting hearing the different ways it's been solved even though the author intended a totally different way.

It's all about having fun and having such good forum friends. Were all different yet alike in some ways. We have enough rules in life.

bob roest · Post by **bob roest** » Fri May 16, 2008 12:59 am

Lillie wrote:My next level will star Qookie and will have lots of tramps

Of course it will.

bob roest · Post by **bob roest** » Fri May 16, 2008 1:23 am

I'm beginning to think this is getting way out of hand.

Most of you realize that this topic was, for the most part, tongue-in-cheek. Thank heavens. For the rest, mea culpa.

To be perfectly honest, I really don't care what your level looks like. It is not my intention nor has it ever been to curtail the creative process. If you want to post a level that sends Qookie over 32 tramps to land in a field of coileys and ghosts surrounded by 29 boxes that have to be pushed through a hidden maze...go for it!

But you better hurry, because I just got a great idea for a new level and I don't need a custom texture!

Lillie · Post by **Lillie** » Fri May 16, 2008 10:03 am

bob roest wrote:Most of you realize that this topic was, for the most part, tongue-in-cheek. Thank heavens.

Well of course - I found it really funny

I did just think of one more rule, one you are guilty of Bobster!

NEVER

EVER

NEVER

EVER

use that number one music in your levels - it drives me nutso!!!!!!

My Turn, new rules

Re: My Turn, new rules