My Turn, new rules

bob roest · Post by **bob roest** » Wed May 14, 2008 2:44 am

This is the first time I have ever started a post in this forum but I've had it up to here!

1. Never, ever, never, ever, ever, ever post a level that you haven't played yourself to make sure it works!

2. Enough with the 'wood' texture. If you're that incapable as a level-maker to pick one of the other default textures then don't post it!

3. Do not, under any circumstances ever again post a level with a hidden maze...it's been done to death!

4. Do not under any circumstances ever again post a level with a pac-man theme. Do I even need to say it.

5. If you want to hex-edit the hell out of of a level so that no one but you and your I.T. buddy have a clue as to what's going on, fine! But when you post it make mention of the fact that you have created a level that in actuality has very little bearing on the parameters of the game.

6. 21 is the maximum number of boxes that you can put in a level that need to be pushed somewhere. I don't care if the generator spits out 5,000. 21 is all we'll push and even that's too many.

7. Unless you have posted somewhere between 500 to 600 levels you are not allowed to make a 3D level. With rare exception, they're annoying.

8. A level with piles of coileys and ghosts that you somehow have to get by with a truck-load of luck is not a level. It's crap.

9. Doing the same level over and over again but with different textures and different names is not allowed. If you can only come up with one idea, so be it. There's no such thing as the 'Greatest Hits of Dexy's Midnight Runners'...'C'mon Eileen' was it!

10. This is not a firm rule but the level should actually come on the screen before you have to do something. Trying to move 'Stinky' 3 seconds after you've turned your computer on is too soon!

11. Mette put a lot of effort into creating a texture's list, use it to acknowledge someone's work. Don't worry about the model list, I find it confusing as well.

12. If you have to make a level that requires lots and lots of tramp work, Qookie can't be the main character. The sound of that character jumping scares me and my cat.

13. Enough with the hidden coin in a false wall!

That's it for now, if I think of something else I'll expand the list.

Have a nice day.

Edit: It seems no.1 was causing too much confusion, it's been changed.

laura n. · Post by **laura n.** » Wed May 14, 2008 3:03 am

Here... here

I don't play a lot of levels anymore, for many reasons but when I do I stick to the "good level makers" because of all the reasons you've listed above.

12. If you have to make a level that requires lots and lots of tramp work, Qookie can't be the main character. The sound of that character jumping scares me and my cat.

Although I know you're serious.. I couldn't help bursting into laughter over that comment

You have a VERY good day Bob

popo · Post by **popo** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:37 am

My favourite line.....

There's no such thing as the 'Greatest Hits of Dexy's Midnight Runners'...'C'mon Eileen' was it!

You're funny Bob.

I think all of the few levels I've made come under one or more of your new rules.

l.wijsbroek · Post by **l.wijsbroek** » Wed May 14, 2008 9:50 am

oh bob, ik voel je frustratie, I feel your frustration, and I agree with you on all "your" rules, every now and then I feel super old, now all the young folks are commenting on the older levels, if the commentary is oke fine, but not same persons with different login names answering to eachother over and over again.

when I look outside the sun is shining in Holland and that improves my mood.

I send you some sunshine too from your old country, but do not get homesick.

greetings

Lydia

bob roest · Post by **bob roest** » Wed May 14, 2008 11:08 am

popo wrote:I think all of the few levels I've made come under one or more of your new rules.

I'm guilty of breaking a few myself Poops! But I'll watch it in the future. In fact I'm working on a level that requires some box pushing, I have to back to it and count how many!

Marinus · Post by **Marinus** » Wed May 14, 2008 1:18 pm

Hi Bob Roels

Allthough you didn't mention my name, I think it's obvious you talked to me in your "new rule #1". (Is that 1 because it's the most important?

) Of course I'll be glad to do someone a favour if it's not so hard. Maybe you've noticed that when I started to play Muzozavr's levels I just replied on 2 of the first 10 levels, not all of them, just for the same reason as you mentioned. But when Amnon asked me to bring them all back, I decided to do someone a favour.

http://pcpuzzle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9685&start=24

Now it appears that there are people here with conflicting wishes, so who of them shall I do a favour? The one who asks me to bring the levels back or the one who says: My turn to make the new rules

BTW, How long is a new level new? A week? A month? Half a year? When I complete the Tuttiepants levels in the next weeks or months, am I allowed to reply on them?

popo · Post by **popo** » Wed May 14, 2008 2:07 pm

I've had an idea

.

From now on, when anyone posts a new level, instead of just putting 'New level - <level name>' why don't you put 'Level - <date of posting> - <level name>'? That way you can see instantly if it's one you've already downloaded or not.

Is that brilliant or what?

rescuefire · Post by **rescuefire** » Wed May 14, 2008 2:21 pm

Ya know I have always thought much of the same as you mentioned Bob.

Some things that I do may make more sense now. I only do certain people's levels. I don't like many of the things you mentioned above so I have learned who's levels I like and who's I don't and simply do the ones I like and not do the ones I don't like.

I only comment on the folks levels that I do, when they are new. Occasionally I comment on an old level, especially ones that are really good and I think it wouldn't hurt to move them back up to the top. Or if I need help on a level and I want to see if anyone remembers them and can help I'll throw in a plea for help which brings it back to the top. Tough poops if ya don't like that

BUT on the same note I've been going back to a lot of old levels lately. I don't comment on them for a few reasons. For example Lizzie's Coin Quest series, there are still many of those I haven't been able to get and once in awhile I'll try again. I'm sure not going to comment on those at this point. It seems on those levels everyone has gotten them and there isn't a need to bring them up again.

On some of the old levels I'll PM the level maker and either ask for help or tell them how much I appreciate their work. My thinking is that if there's a spoiler on the level I can get the help from that, no need to bring it up again.

I don't mind hidden walls to tell the truth. Some levels I wish for a hidden wall cuz I can't find my way through the level hehehe BUT when the hidden walls aren't obvious in certain textures it drives me nuts! Like that one green texture that comes with the game, not the custom one. There is no difference, at least not that I can tell, in the false walls. UGH!

I heartily agree about the hex levels, the start moving before the level loads thing and the maze thing. Personally if I open a level and see nothing but wall tops I skip it right away. There's no puzzle aspect to searching blindly for something. Not fun, no brain work just luck. Not a fan.

I sure hope that this all doesn't discourage people from making levels. Y'all have different styles and some folks like some and some don't. If ya don't like the way a level is going, don't do it. If you really enjoy a level say so!

That's one of the things I guess that bothers me more than some of the things ya mentioned Bobster, how can it be that there are 200 downloads of a level but only 5-12 comments? Does that mean that 190 people didn't like the level? No it can't be because the same level makers get the same amount of downloads all the time so there are obviously folks who like their levels.

This is what makes this forum good, the nice people and great level makers. I'm sure that the level makers aren't looking for the love, that's not why they make levels. BUT it would be nice if all of those that play and enjoy the levels would say so! It keeps this game going. If y'all stopped making levels Return To Wonderland would be just another game you played til ya beat it and then it's gone.

Ok now that I've babbled on and on and totally messed up your thread Bob I'll shuddup now. I just had to get my .02 in.

Edit:

PS - Poops GREAT idea! Simply Brilliant!

tyteen4a03 · Post by **tyteen4a03** » Wed May 14, 2008 2:53 pm

rescuefire wrote:Ya know I have always thought much of the same as you mentioned Bob.

Some things that I do may make more sense now. I only do certain people's levels. I don't like many of the things you mentioned above so I have learned who's levels I like and who's I don't and simply do the ones I like and not do the ones I don't like.

I only comment on the folks levels that I do, when they are new. Occasionally I comment on an old level, especially ones that are really good and I think it wouldn't hurt to move them back up to the top. Or if I need help on a level and I want to see if anyone remembers them and can help I'll throw in a plea for help which brings it back to the top. Tough poops if ya don't like that

BUT on the same note I've been going back to a lot of old levels lately. I don't comment on them for a few reasons. For example Lizzie's Coin Quest series, there are still many of those I haven't been able to get and once in awhile I'll try again. I'm sure not going to comment on those at this point. It seems on those levels everyone has gotten them and there isn't a need to bring them up again.

On some of the old levels I'll PM the level maker and either ask for help or tell them how much I appreciate their work. My thinking is that if there's a spoiler on the level I can get the help from that, no need to bring it up again.

I don't mind hidden walls to tell the truth. Some levels I wish for a hidden wall cuz I can't find my way through the level hehehe BUT when the hidden walls aren't obvious in certain textures it drives me nuts! Like that one green texture that comes with the game, not the custom one. There is no difference, at least not that I can tell, in the false walls. UGH!

I heartily agree about the hex levels, the start moving before the level loads thing and the maze thing. Personally if I open a level and see nothing but wall tops I skip it right away. There's no puzzle aspect to searching blindly for something. Not fun, no brain work just luck. Not a fan.

I sure hope that this all doesn't discourage people from making levels. Y'all have different styles and some folks like some and some don't. If ya don't like the way a level is going, don't do it. If you really enjoy a level say so!

That's one of the things I guess that bothers me more than some of the things ya mentioned Bobster, how can it be that there are 200 downloads of a level but only 5-12 comments? Does that mean that 190 people didn't like the level? No it can't be because the same level makers get the same amount of downloads all the time so there are obviously folks who like their levels.

This is what makes this forum good, the nice people and great level makers. I'm sure that the level makers aren't looking for the love, that's not why they make levels. BUT it would be nice if all of those that play and enjoy the levels would say so! It keeps this game going. If y'all stopped making levels Return To Wonderland would be just another game you played til ya beat it and then it's gone.

Ok now that I've babbled on and on and totally messed up your thread Bob I'll shuddup now. I just had to get my .02 in.

Edit:

PS - Poops GREAT idea! Simply Brilliant!

I really agree these CMs.

2. Enough with the 'wood' texture. If you're that incapable as a level-maker to pick one of the other default textures then don't post it!

3. Do not, under any circumstances ever again post a level with a hidden maze...it's been done to death!

4. Do not under any circumstances ever again post a level with a pac-man theme. Do I even need to say it.

7. Unless you have posted somewhere between 500 to 600 levels you are not allowed to make a 3D level. With rare exception, they're annoying.

8. A level with piles of coileys and ghosts that you somehow have to get by with a truck-load of luck is not a level. It's crap.

13. Enough with the hidden coin in a false wall!

Not all of the people have exp. these!(IT IS POSSIBLE!)
And if 3D engine have some problems,No one knows it!

5. If you want to hex-edit the hell out of of a level so that no one but you and your I.T. buddy have a clue as to what's going on, fine! But when you post it make mention of the fact that you have created a level that in actuality has very little bearing on the parameters of the game.
(I agree this.)

6. 21 is the maximum number of boxes that you can put in a level that need to be pushed somewhere. I don't care if the generator spits out 5,000. 21 is all we'll push and even that's too many.

I don't think it's TOO many.So if you made a factory level and How come there are only 21 boxes!

9. Doing the same level over and over again but with different textures and different names is not allowed. If you can only come up with one idea, so be it. There's no such thing as the 'Greatest Hits of Dexy's Midnight Runners'...'C'mon Eileen' was it!

So if you have some little surprise in it?

10. This is not a firm rule but the level should actually come on the screen before you have to do something. Trying to move 'Stinky' 3 seconds after you've turned your computer on is too soon!

I'll cm this later in this post.

12. If you have to make a level that requires lots and lots of tramp work, Qookie can't be the main character. The sound of that character jumping scares me and my cat.

Simply turn off your speaker.

Now it's the time to answer no10...

YOU ARE REALLY SELFISH!!!!THIS IS NOT YOUR WORLD!!!

IF YOU WANT ALL THIS,SIMPLY PLAY YOURSELF AND NOT TO COME TO THE FORUM!!!!

Another little teen-crack-up

kiki · Post by **kiki** » Wed May 14, 2008 2:59 pm

Sassypants wrote:how can it be that there are 200 downloads of a level but only 5-12 comments? Does that mean that 190 people didn't like the level? No it can't be because the same level makers get the same amount of downloads all the time so there are obviously folks who like their levels.

Lurkers unite, You have the right to comment.

then you have the level makers that post levels but don't post on other level makers levels, But I'm sure enjoy folks posting in their own levels.

Oh well, each to his/her own.

Bob, love the new rules! LOL!

Liz Mayhew · Post by **Liz Mayhew** » Wed May 14, 2008 3:15 pm

I so agree with you Bob. I have to confess I've used 3D on a very few levels when I felt that it would be a different kind of experience (there are 2 or 3 in the Coin Quest series).

My pet hates are ghosts, coileys, spikes and electro tiles used too much.

And the hidden maze thing is a total bore - I always skip levels like that.

As for all the people who download and never comment - it would be nice to hear from you once in a while!

dlcs18 · Post by **dlcs18** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:27 pm

1. Haven't you said something like "Older levels are never forgotten, they just wait patiently to be dug up by someone else."

2. I agree, wood texture is boring.

3. I agree.

4. I agree.

5. So you don't like something mysterious.

6. No comment.

7. This one I don't agree. If someone wants to make a 3D level they can. They make it, they choose what it is like. If it's 3D, just don't play it!

8. No comment.

9. No comment.

10. Sometimes you need to so a glitch can work. (Remember Mark's "Levitation"?)

11. No comment.

12. No comment.

13. I'm OK with hidden coin in false wall.

So there's meh opinion

kiki · Post by **kiki** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:30 pm

Liz wrote:My pet hates are ghosts, coileys, spikes and electro tiles used too much.

I'm with you Liz, I don't mind them (ghost and coilys) so much if there is a way to blow them out of existence.

bob roest · Post by **bob roest** » Wed May 14, 2008 5:21 pm

Nice to see some discussion over the 'rules'.

No.1 seems to have caused some interest.

Marinus this is not about you, if it was I would have sent you a PM. It seems this happens once or twice a year and while I agree with Robyn's take on the older levels and yes, I've comented on a few myself (as I mentioned), I still stand behind what I wrote.

Robyn, I didn't say anything about not using false walls. I have no problem with the odd false wall.

Finally, if anyone still has a question or a concern about what they should or shouldn't do...just ask me.

Happy to help.

rescuefire · Post by **rescuefire** » Wed May 14, 2008 5:28 pm

bob roest wrote:Finally, if anyone still has a question or a concern about what they should or shouldn't do...just ask me.

Happy to help.

Boy did you stir it up! Nice to see a lively debate and some discussion. I'm a firm believer in we are all entitled to our opinions. Ya take what ya need and leave what ya don't need.

Tyteen, calm down punkin'.....there have been SO many of your posts that could have caused a lot of uh...lively discussion but we just left it alone. Take your own advise..if ya don't like something don't read it

or comment on it

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Wed May 14, 2008 5:39 pm

My remarks are in bold.

bob roest wrote:This is the first time I have ever started a post in this forum but I've had it up to here!

1. Simply because a level is new to you, that does not make it new to everyone else. I keep opening up the new levels page and there's stuff that Muzo did two years ago listed as New Level. They're great, BUT THEY AREN'T NEW LEVELS!! I have gone into the archives and played lots of the older stuff, I don't post on all of them because I know that it will push the new stuff down. And no I don't give a s..t if my stuff gets pushed to page 2, that's not why I make them.

Disagree. Anyone has the right to comment on a level if they like it. No, I don't give a damn if the level is like twenty pages old, if it still entertains someone, then great!

2. Enough with the 'wood' texture. If you're that incapable as a level-maker to pick one of the other default textures then don't post it!

Disagree. Good puzzle designers incapable of using the editor well shouldn't be discouraged!

3. Do not, under any circumstances ever again post a level with a hidden maze...it's been done to death!

Agree wholeheartedly.

4. Do not under any circumstances ever again post a level with a pac-man theme. Do I even need to say it.

If it's a usual pacman level, then I agree. If it's a TRICK that only LOOKS like Pacman... then I disagree!

5. If you want to hex-edit the hell out of of a level so that no one but you and your I.T. buddy have a clue as to what's going on, fine! But when you post it make mention of the fact that you have created a level that in actuality has very little bearing on the parameters of the game.

Agree, unless you want to make some sort of a magical theme (that was done by Amadeus!)

6. 21 is the maximum number of boxes that you can put in a level that need to be pushed somewhere. I don't care if the generator spits out 5,000. 21 is all we'll push and even that's too many.

A good Sokoban puzzle can be entertaining even with 30 boxes, however I agree that pushing a lot of boxes the DUMB way is very tedious. So, I generally agree, with an exception for (good!) Soko puzzles with lots of boxes.

7. Unless you have posted somewhere between 500 to 600 levels you are not allowed to make a 3D level. With rare exception, they're annoying.

Agree, unless they are self-working visual effects.

8. A level with piles of coileys and ghosts that you somehow have to get by with a truck-load of luck is not a level. It's crap.

Agree. I could make tons of such layouts, but where's the point in that?

9. Doing the same level over and over again but with different textures and different names is not allowed. If you can only come up with one idea, so be it. There's no such thing as the 'Greatest Hits of Dexy's Midnight Runners'...'C'mon Eileen' was it!

Arguable. Even an old idea can be a new expeirence under a healthy dose of misdirection. My "Scary Chambers" level, for example, is just a couple of nice, but almost self-working rooms at the bottom as a "filler" and a rehash of an old idea, with a red herring sphere and a barrel that can be tramped over but cannot be used there -- for the main part of misdirection, and the boulder generator for covering the two boulders that are the key to solving this. The sign under a stopper coin is also a good subtlety.

10. This is not a firm rule but the level should actually come on the screen before you have to do something. Trying to move 'Stinky' 3 seconds after you've turned your computer on is too soon!

A good quickstart can be funny, but a wrong quickstart can kill the joy, so think very well before inserting it and only do so if you feel that you absolutely REQUIRE to do so.

11. Mette put a lot of effort into creating a texture's list, use it to acknowledge someone's work. Don't worry about the model list, I find it confusing as well.

If you think you can use the model list without being confused, you may use that also.

12. If you have to make a level that requires lots and lots of tramp work, Qookie can't be the main character. The sound of that character jumping scares me and my cat.

Personal opinion -- I love it myself, however I know that it annoys many people, and I advise you to heed this rule, since it will save you many worries about scaring other's cats.

13. Enough with the hidden coin in a false wall!

Agree -- unless that hidden wall is in plain sight of the "Garden" texture and misdirects you away from the simple idea of using it as a spot to maneuver a box. That was the crux of solving the button puzzle of my "A Right Mess!" level, which I am pretty proud of.

That's it for now, if I think of something else I'll expand the list.

I will, if you don't mind.

14. NO HIDDEN LOOF
Please no hidden characters (unless you can solve the level without them, it is) It was alright as a one-time stunt (which is actually possible to figure out) in "What's Hidden In That Hedge?" but that's enough. One, two levels per creator with hidden characters can be alright, but if half your levels employ them, you know it's time for a change.

Have a nice day.

Lutz · Post by **Lutz** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:57 pm

Love your rules, Bob.
Now I understand why you didn't want me to start our common level with 22 boxes in a hidden maze

bob roest · Post by **bob roest** » Wed May 14, 2008 8:34 pm

14. NO HIDDEN LOOF
Please no hidden characters (unless you can solve the level without them, it is) It was alright as a one-time stunt (which is actually possible to figure out) in "What's Hidden In That Hedge?" but that's enough. One, two levels per creator with hidden characters can be alright, but if half your levels employ them, you know it's time for a change.

I'm not sure about this one and hadn't really thought about it because I always push 'Enter' after a level starts to see how many characters I'm dealing with. Obviously a habit I picked up from too many hidden characters.

Okay, we'll run it up the flag-pole and see if anyone salutes!

The list is now 14 rules!

Anyone else have a rule they would like to see, let's hear about it.

dlcs18 · Post by **dlcs18** » Wed May 14, 2008 8:40 pm

15. Don't make your level impossible!!!

I know I did it when I was new but now I know how annoying is it when you download a level but you just can't complete it because it is impossible...

rescuefire · Post by **rescuefire** » Wed May 14, 2008 8:42 pm

Oh my gosh Matt, you are SOOO right!!!

Do yer dang level before posting it! Have someone else do your level too. UGH there's nothing and I mean nothing more irritating than spending 30 minutes trying to work out a level and find out it isn't solvable ::insert really crabby face here:::

mqdar · Post by **mqdar** » Wed May 14, 2008 8:54 pm

16. Always test your levels extremely thoroughly before posting it. Even if it's really complex, unless you don't mind loop-holes poking your level.

If you think or know that there is more than one solution to your level, say so, like bob!

17. This is for the people, like me, who don't like messy levels: Try to keep levels simple, like Mark's "Termite Dust 2", which I eventually completed.

I find kiki levels sooo annoying. I have no idea how the adults complete them.

TheoX · Post by **TheoX** » Wed May 14, 2008 9:13 pm

Interesting comments Bob. I'm going to go through them as Shadow did and write my responses in bold as well.

bob roest wrote:1. Simply because a level is new to you, that does not make it new to everyone else. I keep opening up the new levels page and there's stuff that Muzo did two years ago listed as New Level. They're great, BUT THEY AREN'T NEW LEVELS!! I have gone into the archives and played lots of the older stuff, I don't post on all of them because I know that it will push the new stuff down. And no I don't give a s..t if my stuff gets pushed to page 2, that's not why I make them.

I have to agree to a point here - Having Muz's old levels flooding the levels forum was a bit annoying to me. However, I think bringing back an old level once in a while is okay.

2. Enough with the 'wood' texture. If you're that incapable as a level-maker to pick one of the other default textures then don't post it!

There really aren't that many levels anymore with the wood texture. I think it's fine as long as the level is aesthetically pleasing (like those of Deetster).

3. Do not, under any circumstances ever again post a level with a hidden maze...it's been done to death!

Yeah, I completely agree - I skip levels like those.

4. Do not under any circumstances ever again post a level with a pac-man theme. Do I even need to say it.

Again, I completely agree.

5. If you want to hex-edit the hell out of of a level so that no one but you and your I.T. buddy have a clue as to what's going on, fine! But when you post it make mention of the fact that you have created a level that in actuality has very little bearing on the parameters of the game.

I agree, at least mention it a little bit.

6. 21 is the maximum number of boxes that you can put in a level that need to be pushed somewhere. I don't care if the generator spits out 5,000. 21 is all we'll push and even that's too many.

Where did you get the number 21? Although I agree, pushing a bunch of boxes around is annoying if it's a very repetitive path.

7. Unless you have posted somewhere between 500 to 600 levels you are not allowed to make a 3D level. With rare exception, they're annoying.

I agree, the "rare exception" in my mind being kids levels - those are the only 3D levels I've made. All puzzle 3D levels are annoying, especially those with spikes & electro tiles!!!

8. A level with piles of coileys and ghosts that you somehow have to get by with a truck-load of luck is not a level. It's crap.

Yep. I agree, if there's no easy way to get through them then it is completely obnoxious.

9. Doing the same level over and over again but with different textures and different names is not allowed. If you can only come up with one idea, so be it. There's no such thing as the 'Greatest Hits of Dexy's Midnight Runners'...'C'mon Eileen' was it!

I've never seen anyone do this...

10. This is not a firm rule but the level should actually come on the screen before you have to do something. Trying to move 'Stinky' 3 seconds after you've turned your computer on is too soon!

I've made several levels like these, such as the recent "Diagonal Doozie", and you still completed that!

11. Mette put a lot of effort into creating a texture's list, use it to acknowledge someone's work. Don't worry about the model list, I find it confusing as well.

Yeah, if you use a texture it is nice to credit it to the maker. People usually do that already though.

12. If you have to make a level that requires lots and lots of tramp work, Qookie can't be the main character. The sound of that character jumping scares me and my cat.

LOL! I think it's cute myself.

13. Enough with the hidden coin in a false wall!

I agree with this too.

Marinus · Post by **Marinus** » Wed May 14, 2008 9:17 pm

Bob, when I first read your post, it was hard for me to know how serious your problems were, just as hard as walking on a tight rope. I'd rather have some strong wood under my feet.

But I'll keep it in mind. (not sure what I'll do)

kiki · Post by **kiki** » Wed May 14, 2008 9:46 pm

Darshan wrote:Try to keep levels simple, like Mark's "Termite Dust 2", which I eventually completed

Termite Dust is a great example of Marks genius in designing levels, However it is not a simple level.

Darshan also wrote:I find kiki levels sooo annoying.

Is it because you can't solve them or am I just a crappy designer, Thanks!

And finally he wrote:I have no idea how the adults complete them.

Good old determination and not giving up so fast, Me thinks!

dlcs18 · Post by **dlcs18** » Wed May 14, 2008 9:51 pm

rescuefire wrote:Do yer dang level before posting it! Have someone else do your level too. UGH there's nothing and I mean nothing more irritating than spending 30 minutes trying to work out a level and find out it isn't solvable ::insert really crabby face here:::

lol yeah, remember this topic? Clicky!

Marinus · Post by **Marinus** » Wed May 14, 2008 9:54 pm

kiki wrote:
Darshan wrote:Try to keep levels simple, like Mark's "Termite Dust 2", which I eventually completed
Termite Dust is a great example of Marks genius in designing levels, However it is not a simple level.

Darshan also wrote:I find kiki levels sooo annoying.
Is it because you can't solve them or am I just a crappy designer, Thanks!

And finally he wrote:I have no idea how the adults complete them.
Good old determination and not giving up so fast, Me thinks!

uneekrose · Post by **uneekrose** » Wed May 14, 2008 11:33 pm

For some reason I seen this post coming as I found it hard to find the new posted levels also. But then I'm easy going so it didn't really bother me. But I have been chastised for posting on to many of the older levels myself thru a PM. At first it bothered me....the nerve of some people, but like I said I'm easy going and the person did it in a nice way. So I apologized for getting caught up in the moment of being able to solve some tuff levels. It's only a forum that goes with the game I absolutely can't tear myself away from.

How old do you consider a level before we ask for help? I realize after a certain amount of time the level maker has forgotten how to do it or is no longer involved with the forum.

I don't like mazes, especially with loof in them, he's so short you can't keep track of the poor little fellow. And I'm sick of pacman levels. I don't mind hidden coins as long as there's something to tell you there's a hole in the wall. Nothing more frustrating than getting to the exit to be missing a coin. But I just open the level up in the editor and find the silly coin, bet I get it next time.

I give everybody's level a chance, if they can post a level that's playable they deserve at least that much and maybe a comment of encouragement. We should all be able to handle a bit of criticism as well.

I hate levels that you spend downloading, go to play them and you have Stinky stuck in a wall, 50 or so enemies, no exit. That's not funny and it doesn't look cool.

I don't like hex editing, but if your going to post it give a solution and not cryptic messages. I love Mark's levels, he takes the time to post the solution or make a video showing us how he did it. Whens the last time someone told him how much he's appreciated for doing that?

I don't like 3D either but again I can remove that thru the editor.

I don't mind a lot of enemies as long as they can be killed off and out of the way or at least there's a use for them. there's nothing better than watching a bunch of ghosts getting ice cubed or blown up with barrels.

We have a lot of talented level makers and solvers on this forum, a lot of great people. We can all vent now and then, I believe I did it several years ago on here probably about 40 or 50 pages back.

I got to go play now...........

bob roest · Post by **bob roest** » Thu May 15, 2008 12:51 am

mqdar wrote:17. This is for the people, like me, who don't like messy levels: Try to keep levels simple. I find kiki levels sooo annoying. I have no idea how the adults complete them.

While I couldn't agree more, this can't be a rule. Asking Keeks to not make annoying levels is like asking a fish to play chess...it can't be done.

jcvalcar2 · Post by **jcvalcar2** » Thu May 15, 2008 12:56 am

Wow, I wondered where everyone was

I also wondered why Dizzy posted the date on her new levels - fantastic idea, especially when you are away for a bit and have to hunt and find levels.

Bob, you do have alot of good points, I'll have to reread them better as I've been guilty of a few of them myself. Playing my older levels where things were hard to see was boring

Can I add another rule to your list?

Once you post a level, check back on your thread to make certain that there isn't anything wrong with what was posted. Some level makers ignore their thread once it's been posted.

kiki · Post by **kiki** » Thu May 15, 2008 1:07 am

I am guilty of designing messy levels, I just went thru all 749 of them and 247 are very messy, Sorry!

My Turn, new rules

My Turn, new rules

Re: My Turn, new rules

Re: My Turn, new rules

Re: My Turn, new rules