How to live, how to think, how to act?

[Marinus]

Continuing from the discussion between Billy Bob, Qloof and me, especially in the "Pirate" topic, some other topics, and the fight in the "Sonic" topic. (Well not continuing the fight of course, but talking about it.)

BB, I think we have a lot to talk about to make things (b)right and clear. First thing, maybe most important to me is: Did you notice that our fight actually is caused by rules? Ironic isn't it, while rules actually are meant to avoid fights. So, I would like to ask you: Please don't talk to other people about what the rules say, at least until we've finished this discussion, and we have, as far as possible, some agreements about it.

Next thing is, I realize I made two mistakes, (well perhaps I made more, but yet I realize two) First I kept talking to you while I was still angry, and second, I sort of underestimated you. Possibly because I was talking to Deeman in the first place, when you interfered with it, and then I continued talking to you in the same way, which is not good because you are two totally different persons. You both may do the same thing: telling other people what they should do or not do, but you do it different ways. Therefore I should have talked to you at different ways.

It started when I heard (read: read) Deeman barking to Technos, which is always annoying to my ears. Therefore I use to start barking to Deeman, if possible a little bit louder, and most of times, that works well, at least for a little while. But then you came to interfere with it, which annoyed me even more because you were still saying you're not wrong while Qloof and I had made clear several times that your logic fails and you had no good arguments to disprove / invalidate that. Therefore, while I was still angry, I started barking to you even louder, and I realize I better should not have done that.

Of course I'm not saying that I agree with Nobody's, Technos' and more people's way of backseat moderating; on the contrary. Just quoting one word in someone else's post and saying such as "What?!" or ??? or a "shocked" smiley is not the right way in my opinion. I would rather have said such as: "Please think about, that most people, including Patrick, don't like the use of such words on this forum, so would you please edit your post and remove that word?" But well, it had already happened and there was no use in keep talking about it further. Actually I think it's even better that the word is still in some quotes, so that other people will think: "Phew, considering how much trouble was caused by only the use of one word, we'd better not use that word."

So I would like to take some of my words back, and replace them a different way. Instead of the 3 posts after each other:

And the same for you BB! ..... Go To 2 posts above.

I would have said:

If you keep the rules yourself the way they are meant in your opinion, and the way how important each rule is in your opinion, that fine. But please don't push that opinion through, to other people. They have the right to have their own opinion. (Also the same as said at the beginning of this post:) Please don't talk to other people about what the rules say, at least until we've finished this discussion, and we have, as far as possible, some agreements about it.

Next 2 posts:

Instead of responding on: "I'm not in the mood for arguing.", I should have responded on: "(or perhaps more of a devil)" and: "Marinus says that unfriendliness will solve the situation.". (And: Please, write your words in a readable size.)

If I'm still going to do that, depends on, if you do the same as I do, taking back some words, and replacing them by others.

Next post: I was responding on the way you acted at that moment. At this moment I would have said the same Qloof said. (If I had found the right words.)

The other posts, I wouldn't have changed. If you also would like to change some things before we continue our discussion, please let me know. Also, you said you are away for a couple of days; Any idea when you're back on the forum?

See you later.

[billy bob]

It's odd, actually. If one of these people didn't exist: Patrick (for creating the forum) or Tailsthefox (for creating the topic) or Eee226 (for bumping it) or ^_^ (for bringing the "swear word") or Technos72 (for still having the "swear word" within the quote) or Deeman223344 (for telling Technos72 to get rid of the "swear word" within the quote) or Marinus or Billy Bob, then it wouldn't have happened. (Note - I am not blaming anyone, it's just a bit odd how if one of those people didn't exist then it wouldn't have happened.)

BB, I think we have a lot to talk about to make things (b)right and clear. First thing, maybe most important to me is: Did you notice that our fight actually is caused by rules? Ironic isn't it, while rules actually are meant to avoid fights. So, I would like to ask you: Please don't talk to other people about what the rules say, at least until we've finished this discussion, and we have, as far as possible, some agreements about it.

It wasn't the rules. It wasn't you disobeying the rules either. It was your offensive posts/me finding your posts offensive. If we obeyed the rules, then this wouldn't have happened.

Also, you said you are away for a couple of days; Any idea when you're back on the forum?

I've decided I'm going to leave for a couple of days (starting from now) because I'm upset. So, bye.

[Marinus]

It was your offensive posts/me finding your posts offensive.

Indeed. And the reason why.....

Please let me know if you're back, and if you want to change something then, before I continue.

Bye.

[eee226]

WHY ME? AM I A FAMOUS SPAMMER?

[Marinus]

Well, that too, but that's not what he's talking about. He said: "bumping", which means, bringing your post/topic back up to top. But that's actually not what you did, because it was not your topic. However, apparently some people on this forum also use the word "bump" for bringing up any topic in general.

I think that's a good point though:

Eee226 (for bumping it)

By the definition of bump, that is incorrect.

[^_^]

It's odd, actually. If one of these people didn't exist: Patrick (for creating the forum) or Tailsthefox (for creating the topic) or Eee226 (for bumping it) or ^_^ (for bringing the "swear word") or Technos72 (for still having the "swear word" within the quote) or Deeman223344 (for telling Technos72 to get rid of the "swear word" within the quote) or Marinus or Billy Bob, then it wouldn't have happened. Laughing (Note - I am not blaming anyone, it's just a bit odd how if one of those people didn't exist then it wouldn't have happened.)

Maybe.
But for witch reason you and Marinus?

[Marinus]

Since BB is away for some days, let me answer. (There is no witch involved though) BB and I had sort of a fight, so if one of us didn't exist, we couldn't have had a fight. Seems obvious to me.

[DEEMAN223344]

It's odd, actually. If one of these people didn't exist: Patrick (for creating the forum) or Tailsthefox (for creating the topic) or Eee226 (for bumping it) or ^_^ (for bringing the "swear word") or Technos72 (for still having the "swear word" within the quote) or Deeman223344 (for telling Technos72 to get rid of the "swear word" within the quote) or Marinus or Billy Bob, then it wouldn't have happened. (Note - I am not blaming anyone, it's just a bit odd how if one of those people didn't exist then it wouldn't have happened.)

BB, I think we have a lot to talk about to make things (b)right and clear. First thing, maybe most important to me is: Did you notice that our fight actually is caused by rules? Ironic isn't it, while rules actually are meant to avoid fights. So, I would like to ask you: Please don't talk to other people about what the rules say, at least until we've finished this discussion, and we have, as far as possible, some agreements about it.

It wasn't the rules. It wasn't you disobeying the rules either. It was your offensive posts/me finding your posts offensive. If we obeyed the rules, then this wouldn't have happened.

Also, you said you are away for a couple of days; Any idea when you're back on the forum?

I've decided I'm going to leave for a couple of days (starting from now) because I'm upset. So, bye.

No, It would only have made a difference is ^_^ hadn't posted that.
END?

[DEEMAN223344]

"Phew, considering how much trouble was caused by only the use of one word, we'd better not use that word."




.

You cannot grasp the true form of little kids' minds!
Seriously, Little kids won't have learned that logic yet.

[Marinus]

Perhaps you're right. But I think children, a little bit older, will understand. Also very little children will probably ask their parents what's going on, because the word is in some quote's (alone) instead of in a normal sentence. Then their parents should tell them: "That's, because it's a bad word, and you should not use it". Sooner or later they will hear / read such words anyhow.

[billy bob]

Eee226 (for bumping it)

By the definition of bump, that is incorrect.

Rules are important - this discussion isn't. You don't want to check all the words in the dictionary because this isn't a serious discussion. As for the rules, that's serious.

It's odd, actually. If one of these people didn't exist: Patrick (for creating the forum) or Tailsthefox (for creating the topic) or Eee226 (for bumping it) or ^_^ (for bringing the "swear word") or Technos72 (for still having the "swear word" within the quote) or Deeman223344 (for telling Technos72 to get rid of the "swear word" within the quote) or Marinus or Billy Bob, then it wouldn't have happened. (Note - I am not blaming anyone, it's just a bit odd how if one of those people didn't exist then it wouldn't have happened.)

BB, I think we have a lot to talk about to make things (b)right and clear. First thing, maybe most important to me is: Did you notice that our fight actually is caused by rules? Ironic isn't it, while rules actually are meant to avoid fights. So, I would like to ask you: Please don't talk to other people about what the rules say, at least until we've finished this discussion, and we have, as far as possible, some agreements about it.

It wasn't the rules. It wasn't you disobeying the rules either. It was your offensive posts/me finding your posts offensive. If we obeyed the rules, then this wouldn't have happened.

Also, you said you are away for a couple of days; Any idea when you're back on the forum?

I've decided I'm going to leave for a couple of days (starting from now) because I'm upset. So, bye.

No, It would only have made a difference is ^_^ hadn't posted that.

Not true. I've already said the reasons for everyone (except Marinus and Billy Bob, but that's really obvious).

It started when I heard (read: read) Deeman barking to Technos, which is always annoying to my ears. Therefore I use to start barking to Deeman, if possible a little bit louder, and most of times, that works well, at least for a little while.

It really, really doesn't.

1. It could really upset Deeman223344.
2. It could really anger Deeman223344.

If you bark at a dog, the dog will bark back (I'm not calling anyone a dog).

[Marinus]

"Rules are important - this discussion isn't." ==>> "My opinion is important, other people's opinions aren't" ==>> "I am important, other people aren't"

Edit: When I was going to school the learners made this joke:

rule 1: The teacher is always right!
rule 2: If the teacher is wrong, go to rule 1.

Let's exchange the words "the teacher" into "Billy Bob".

[Marinus]

I love dogs. At least, some of them, such as Labradors. Because I can understand them a bit and they understand me. I also can bark a little of "woof" and "waf". If I go playing with them I can do almost everything with them, because they know it's just playing. If a dog jumps to me, standing on its rear legs, with the front legs against my chest, I am going with my hand over its head and back, and it licks my face. Then we're friends, and we understand each other's language.

However, I don't like parrots. You know why? Because I don't understand their language. All they can do is repeating the same words, they learned from humans (or read in a dictionary of a book of rules), and keep repeating them over and over again. I can try explain them, giving them good reasons why I think my opinion is right and theirs isn't, but they simply ignore that. They don't listen to what I say, but keep repeating theirselves instead.

I am calling someone a parrot. Guess who.


Billy Bob, as long as you really believe that you feeling upset is caused by me, or whoever else on this forum or in this world, and you don't realize that the real cause is your own selfish ego, by acting as if what you say is the one and only truth, don't be surprised if people don't like you, and if you may feel upset now and then.

The only reason people don't like you here is because you keep trying to pass your opinions off as being the only truth of the matter. Of course people aren't going to respond positively, you can't expect them to.

[billy bob]

"Rules are important - this discussion isn't." ==>> "My opinion is important, other people's opinions aren't" ==>> "I am important, other people aren't"

What? Those are completely different sentences.

Billy Bob, as long as you really believe that you feeling upset is caused by me, or whoever else on this forum or in this world, and you don't realize that the real cause is your own selfish ego, by acting as if what you say is the one and only truth, don't be surprised if people don't like you, and if you may feel upset now and then.

The only reason people don't like you here is because you keep trying to pass your opinions off as being the only truth of the matter. Of course people aren't going to respond positively, you can't expect them to.

But you will see that it is a truth by the end of the argument (if it does end).

[Marinus]

As long as you keep ignoring what other people say, and only keep repeating the same over and over again, I'm afraid it will not end.

Edit: most people realize that it's not funny to make the same joke 3 times again.

[billy bob]

Edit: most people realize that it's not funny to make the same joke 3 times again.

What joke?

As long as you keep ignoring what other people say, and only keep repeating the same over and over again, I'm afraid it will not end.

I'm not repeating myself.

[Marinus]

What joke?

The words: "Marinus don't youe have sense of humor?" which was a link to a joke I made, not to you, and not about you, (but about EEE making so many topics) and a joke you didn't even understand.

And talking about the other 2 times you made that same joke: I think changing someones words on purpose, is not a joke but a big lie.

And testing how far you can go before someone is getting mad, is not a joke either, but even many times worse then calling each other bad names.

So please don't talk about jokes, and sense of humor again.

Edit:

I'm not repeating myself.

That's probably because of your bad memory, at least a bad memory when it's about what you said. If it's about what someone else said, which is bad in your opinion, you have a very good memory instead.

[billy bob]

I'm not repeating myself.

That's probably because of your bad memory, at least a bad memory when it's about what you said. If it's about what someone else said, which is bad in your opinion, you have a very good memory instead.

I'd remember what I said. I don't remember the other stuff because that's a different type of memory.

[Marinus]

So, for remembering someone else is wrong (in your opinion) is a different memory required, then for remembering someone else proved you wrong with logical arguments?

Too bad that you have only one of them. Well, then I suggest, read everything in the Pirate topic again, in the Sonic topic, in the other topics you posted, and the beginning of this topic until here. Good evening.

[billy bob]

So, for remembering someone else is wrong (in your opinion) is a different memory required, then for remembering someone else proved you wrong with logical arguments?

No, that's not what I meant. Forget I said that actually.

Basically, I'd remember if I repeated myself.

It started when I heard (read: read) Deeman barking to Technos, which is always annoying to my ears. Therefore I use to start barking to Deeman, if possible a little bit louder, and most of times, that works well, at least for a little while.

It really, really doesn't.

1. It could really upset Deeman223344.
2. It could really anger Deeman223344.

If you bark at a dog, the dog will bark back (I'm not calling anyone a dog).

You still haven't replied to the quote above.

[Marinus]

Basically, I'd remember if I repeated myself

Well then I see no other way then that I have to repeat myself: Please read everything again we discussed the last days /weeks. And then I hope you will not have forgotten the beginning, at the moment you read the end.

And please also respond on all the posts you ignored so far. And with respond I don't mean, making a big quote and saying nothing but: That's not true, or something like that.

It started when I heard (read: read) Deeman barking to Technos, which is always annoying to my ears. Therefore I use to start barking to Deeman, if possible a little bit louder, and most of times, that works well, at least for a little while.

It really, really doesn't.

1. It could really upset Deeman223344.
2. It could really anger Deeman223344.

If you bark at a dog, the dog will bark back (I'm not calling anyone a dog).

I'm not repeating myself.

You still haven't replied to the quote above.

You still haven't replied on everything that Qloof or I said proving you are wrong.

[Marinus]

Forget I said that actually.

If you are willing to admit your mistakes, then I'm willing to forget some things you said. But as long as you keep acting this way, simply ignoring everything you don't like, and only responding on the things you think you have an answer on, then I may have a better memory then you have.

Also, you wrote something like: I'm not going to be checkmated. No of course not. As long as you keep putting the pieces back on the board, when you think no one is looking, you'll never be. But don't forget: It's against the rules.

[Marinus]

"Rules are important - this discussion isn't." ==>> "My opinion is important, other people's opinions aren't" ==>> "I am important, other people aren't"

What? Those are completely different sentences.

Anyone who has eyes, and a brain can see that those sentences are the same:

The opinion of the one who finds rules important (My, Billy Bob's opinion) is important - the opinion of the one who finds this discussion important (other people) is not important.

So, Billy Bob's opinion is important - other people's opinion is not important.

Which means: Billy Bob is important (because his opinion is the truth) - other people are not important. (because their opinions are just silly nonsense)

Well, if you want to live with that; good luck, but don't expect you're getting friends with it. (But perhaps that's not important. To be honest; I've no idea what's important)

[billy bob]

OK, right, you win. You can violate the rules all you like. Because I'm going to play Wonderland instead. Bye!

Three things though:

"Rules are important - this discussion isn't." ==>> "My opinion is important, other people's opinions aren't" ==>> "I am important, other people aren't"

What? Those are completely different sentences.

Anyone who has eyes, and a brain can see that those sentences are the same:

[sarcastic]Oh thanks.[/sarcastic]

Also, you wrote something like: I'm not going to be checkmated. No of course not. As long as you keep putting the pieces back on the board, when you think no one is looking, you'll never be. But don't forget: It's against the rules.

Unless it's advancing pawns (this is just in the metaphor thing).

"Rules are important - this discussion isn't." ==>> "My opinion is important, other people's opinions aren't" ==>> "I am important, other people aren't"

What? Those are completely different sentences.

Anyone who has eyes, and a brain can see that those sentences are the same:

The opinion of the one who finds rules important (My, Billy Bob's opinion) is important - the opinion of the one who finds this discussion important (other people) is not important.

So, Billy Bob's opinion is important - other people's opinion is not important.

Which means: Billy Bob is important (because his opinion is the truth) - other people are not important. (because their opinions are just silly nonsense)

Well, if you want to live with that; good luck, but don't expect you're getting friends with it. (But perhaps that's not important. To be honest; I've no idea what's important)

It's not about my opinion. I thought it would be pretty obvious that the rules are important. But apparently not.

[Qloof234]

Here's the thing, though - You have been repeating yourself countless times. Not even just in this topic or the Sonic one, but in ones like the Correction topic as well. You keep claiming that you're right every time someone disagrees with you about something like this - even if it's a group of people who disagree.

Like I said before - I don't hate anyone here, and I wish no ill onto any member of the forum, past or present. However - you simply can't expect people to treat you with any respect or pay heed to what you have to say when you pass your opinion off as the only truth. Which is what you're doing.

I could say that clouds are green, but that doesn't make it true. If that example doesn't work, then I could say that I dislike most shooters because they're too bland and repetitive. Most people would definitely disagree with me. If I start claiming that "they're too repetitive therefore they suck therefore I'm right", I'd be claiming my opinion as fact. Here's the thing: While shooters might be repetitive, just because they are doesn't make what I say a fact. The same thing applies to you.

You have to factor in that everyone in the world analyzes and outputs information differently, which is only one part of the equation you're missing. The other part is that "facts" like definitions in a dictionary are not facts of the universe - they're human opinion that has become widely accepted as true.

There's no such thing as "absolute" knowledge in the universe. As I believe I said earlier, there's no such thing as a "smart" human being either - because in time, their ideas will be overturned, evolved, or destroyed. Rules are definitely important in the world, I won't deny that. However, unless a rule isn't clearly defined - like laws - then whether an action breaks a rule or not is up to human interpretation.

Guess which of those applies to this forum? No, not the former. It's the latter one by a long shot.

Just because you think a post is spam or off-topic doesn't mean everyone will. You can't expect to have your opinion enforced as rules or facts, especially when you just respond with the same arguments whenever anyone's called your attention to opinions.

You can try and deny that you're doing that if you want, but unfortunately that is what you're doing. Every time that an argument like this starts, your reasoning is essentially just that you're correct. In the correction topic, it was based on the reasoning that people would want to learn how to spell properly. In this case, it's based on the reasoning that the dictionary is fact.

Both of these incidents include you not taking into account the fact that ultimately, it all comes down to opinion.

In the correction topic, your argument was that people would learn and be glad you told them how to spell something properly. That's fine, and I respect that, but not everyone abides by that belief system, therefore you can't claim it as a fact or a justified reason to keep correcting people when all it does is anger others.

In this case, you claimed the Pirate thread was against the rules because it was off-topic. That's fine, and I respect that, but not everyone believes that it was off-topic, therefore you can't claim it as a fact that it was an off-topic thread.

Noticing a pattern emerging? Yeah, I do too.

The rules are important, of course. What's more important is everyone's opinion. Just because you disagree with someone or don't like their opinion doesn't automatically mean that yours is right and theirs isn't. In fact, all you've been doing in all these incidents is making things worse for yourself. Marinus pointed this out too - stating your opinion as a fact and others as not is basically the same as saying "I'm important and you're not because my opinion is a fact, therefore you are wrong for disagreeing with me".

If you keep going around stating your opinions as facts, then you're going to lose respect from people on and off the forum quickly. This whole time, in all of these topic, I haven't been trying to prove you wrong - I've been trying to help show you the way, so you don't get lost.

I was like you once, a few years ago, and I thought my opinion was a fact too. Look where I am now - a teenage school drop-out because none of the kids in my class cared about my opinion or respected me. It turned me into a loner, and that's how I've been ever since.

If you want to keep up with your belief that your opinion's correct, then you can. However, you can not blame anyone else when things go badly for you. The only person you'll have to blame is yourself.


Now then, that said, if you do have a valid response that can legitimately disprove anything I've stated here without repeating anything, fire away. I don't want to leave any loose ends.

[billy bob]

Just because you think a post is spam or off-topic doesn't mean everyone will. You can't expect to have your opinion enforced as rules or facts, especially when you just respond with the same arguments whenever anyone's called your attention to opinions.

You can try and deny that you're doing that if you want, but unfortunately that is what you're doing. Every time that an argument like this starts, your reasoning is essentially just that you're correct. In the correction topic, it was based on the reasoning that people would want to learn how to spell properly. In this case, it's based on the reasoning that the dictionary is fact.

Both of these incidents include you not taking into account the fact that ultimately, it all comes down to opinion.

In the correction topic, your argument was that people would learn and be glad you told them how to spell something properly. That's fine, and I respect that, but not everyone abides by that belief system, therefore you can't claim it as a fact or a justified reason to keep correcting people when all it does is anger others.

In this case, you claimed the Pirate thread was against the rules because it was off-topic. That's fine, and I respect that, but not everyone believes that it was off-topic, therefore you can't claim it as a fact that it was an off-topic thread.

But if that is true then there is no such thing as fact.

I was like you once, a few years ago, and I thought my opinion was a fact too. Look where I am now - a teenage school drop-out because none of the kids in my class cared about my opinion or respected me. It turned me into a loner, and that's how I've been ever since.

Same with me except I "dropped out" because of different reasons.

[Qloof234]

Just because you think a post is spam or off-topic doesn't mean everyone will. You can't expect to have your opinion enforced as rules or facts, especially when you just respond with the same arguments whenever anyone's called your attention to opinions.

You can try and deny that you're doing that if you want, but unfortunately that is what you're doing. Every time that an argument like this starts, your reasoning is essentially just that you're correct. In the correction topic, it was based on the reasoning that people would want to learn how to spell properly. In this case, it's based on the reasoning that the dictionary is fact.

Both of these incidents include you not taking into account the fact that ultimately, it all comes down to opinion.

In the correction topic, your argument was that people would learn and be glad you told them how to spell something properly. That's fine, and I respect that, but not everyone abides by that belief system, therefore you can't claim it as a fact or a justified reason to keep correcting people when all it does is anger others.

In this case, you claimed the Pirate thread was against the rules because it was off-topic. That's fine, and I respect that, but not everyone believes that it was off-topic, therefore you can't claim it as a fact that it was an off-topic thread.

But if that is true then there is no such thing as fact.

Exactly. There really isn't. "Facts" are pieces of information that are widely accepted as true, even if they aren't actually true.

[billy bob]

Just because you think a post is spam or off-topic doesn't mean everyone will. You can't expect to have your opinion enforced as rules or facts, especially when you just respond with the same arguments whenever anyone's called your attention to opinions.

You can try and deny that you're doing that if you want, but unfortunately that is what you're doing. Every time that an argument like this starts, your reasoning is essentially just that you're correct. In the correction topic, it was based on the reasoning that people would want to learn how to spell properly. In this case, it's based on the reasoning that the dictionary is fact.

Both of these incidents include you not taking into account the fact that ultimately, it all comes down to opinion.

In the correction topic, your argument was that people would learn and be glad you told them how to spell something properly. That's fine, and I respect that, but not everyone abides by that belief system, therefore you can't claim it as a fact or a justified reason to keep correcting people when all it does is anger others.

In this case, you claimed the Pirate thread was against the rules because it was off-topic. That's fine, and I respect that, but not everyone believes that it was off-topic, therefore you can't claim it as a fact that it was an off-topic thread.

But if that is true then there is no such thing as fact.

Exactly. There really isn't. "Facts" are pieces of information that are widely accepted as true, even if they aren't actually true.

But is that a fact?

[Marinus]

But is that a fact?

Well, probably one of the 10? 20? 100? things you "forgot":

You can't disagree with an obvious fact.

What's the difference between your (and then I mean your (Billy Bob's) not mine) opinion, and an obvious fact?

There are many differences, but I can't define them.

Thanks. In that case, can we please have an agreement, that you don't call things an "obvious fact", while I think it's not an "obvious fact"?

OK.

Since Qloof and I are stating our opinions as being opinions, which can be discussed, we shouldn't answer that question.

And since you are the one who states his opinion as being a fact, you should be the one to give your own clear descriptions of the words "rule" and "fact".

And if you're not able to do that (the only thing you seem to can do is searching for them in dictionaries) you'd better shut your [sarcastic] wise [/sarcastic] mouth.

[billy bob]

I didn't think it was an obvious fact because it was my opinion, I thought everyone thought the same. I was wrong.

Can this end now?