WA POTZ Editor Update

[Midnight Synergy]

Hi all,

I've been very quiet on the editor front, so I wanted to give you a little heads up of what to expect.

I'm been making very little headway on major changes in the way the editor functions. Truth is, it's too much of a cobbled mess of code over the past 7 years to make many more changes. The few things that were added during the development of POTZ (other than all the new objects) were tough.

But I feel that it's been long enough and I really want to get the editor into the community. So my plan is to take what I have and clean it up to make a coherent package. I hope I should have this all done later in February.

What should you expect?
* the editor itself will be largely unchanged from what you already know and have. It will have the new POTZ features, and a few tweaks (such as seeing Stinkers' hats and accessories in the model), but no quantum changes.
* the player will be able to play either individual adventures, or whole "games" (hubs + adventure collections) - not sure what a better word for "game" would be.
* as the level creator, you would have to manually move adventure directories on your drive to create a "game". I.e. you would make a directory "MyGame", copy the various adventures into sub-directories, the adventure that becomes the hub into a hub sub-directory, add a custom logo if wanted. Then that would all be zipped up and posted. Players would download and extract the zip, the player.exe would recognize the new "game" and off they go! (in other words, there is not separate "game compiler").

There are still a couple of open questions - any input/opinions on these would be appreciated:
* how to handle custom content. i.e. whether or not to keep one global custom content directory, or link the content specifically to each adventure or "game".
* how to distribute the editor. I want to make this available free to the community, but it should really be for registered users of POTZ only. I haven't quite figured out how best to do this.

Further down the road I'd love to consider making collections of the best "games" and making them available as stand-alone downloads on the main midnightsynergy website. My thoughts on this are
a) most casual users don't want to mess around with the editor, but may be interested in playing some of the best custom adventures.
b) these would be available for sale (at a low price) to generate a (small) revenue stream to support the editor and the site.
c) authors/creators of these worlds would receive payment for their work.


So that's it in a nutshell... again, I hope to have more concrete news (and actual release) next month.

Best wishes,
Patrick

[Krishiv738]

Well,that's cool that editor's getting updates.

If you want to distribute the editor,make it for registered users only,make an editor patch and zip it.of the file size is still large,zip the zip and so on to make the zip file of 800kb.

As for custom content:it should be in the adventure folder rather than downloading the custom content separately.

There should be a cutscene editor too.

[Sammy_P]

coolio i guess

If you want to distribute the editor,make it for registered users only,make an editor patch and zip it.of the file size is still large,zip the zip and so on to make the zip file of 800kb.

it doesnt work that way :S

[MyNameIsKooky]

Sounds cool!

* how to handle custom content. i.e. whether or not to keep one global custom content directory, or link the content specifically to each adventure or "game".

Keep one global custom content directory. That will save space on our computers rather than having to download the same custom texture over and over again for multiple adventures.

* how to distribute the editor. I want to make this available free to the community, but it should really be for registered users of POTZ only. I haven't quite figured out how best to do this.

Perhaps you can make it an extension of the POTZ game somehow?

[yot yot5]

* how to handle custom content. i.e. whether or not to keep one global custom content directory, or link the content specifically to each adventure or "game".

I think that linking the content specifically to each adventure would be preferable, but it would be a pain because all adventures prior to the POTZ-editor have used one global directory. If I had to choose, I would probably decide to stick with the global directly.

* how to distribute the editor. I want to make this available free to the community, but it should really be for registered users of POTZ only. I haven't quite figured out how best to do this.

The current WA editor is available to non-WA users, so unless I'm missing something obvious, I really don't see any reason to change that now.

Further down the road I'd love to consider making collections of the best "games" and making them available as stand-alone downloads on the main midnightsynergy website. My thoughts on this are
a) most casual users don't want to mess around with the editor, but may be interested in playing some of the best custom adventures.
b) these would be available for sale (at a low price) to generate a (small) revenue stream to support the editor and the site.
c) authors/creators of these worlds would receive payment for their work.

That sounds awesome!

[Jutomi]

Aw, neat!

Just a question; Will this still be limited to having 99 levels and 99 dialogues?

[Pawelec]

* how to handle custom content. i.e. whether or not to keep one global custom content directory, or link the content specifically to each adventure or "game".

I'd go for specific linking, it can make us avoid many troubles (eg. names overlap).

* how to distribute the editor. I want to make this available free to the community, but it should really be for registered users of POTZ only. I haven't quite figured out how best to do this.

The current editor is avaible to everyone. I see no need to limit it, as yotyot wrote.

Further down the road I'd love to consider making collections of the best "games" and making them available as stand-alone downloads on the main midnightsynergy website. My thoughts on this are
a) most casual users don't want to mess around with the editor, but may be interested in playing some of the best custom adventures.
b) these would be available for sale (at a low price) to generate a (small) revenue stream to support the editor and the site.
c) authors/creators of these worlds would receive payment for their work

I don't quite get it: you want the payment to be necessary or rather an optional donation? Everything I make for WA engine is done for my own satisfaction, to express my creativity... in a creative way
I would like people to enjoy playing my adventures/"games" as much, as I enjoy making them - this also means for free. On the other hand, I am aware that every company really needs money.

Awww... I see no solution here, I'd recommend voluntary donations, but we can only guess how high profit would they yield.

[Jutomi]

I'd do it for free...

except, I feel like my puzzles are rather...

simplexicated?

At least, comparing to some of the mind-boggling I've seen.

And, granted, I do make some harder ones, but I fear that by then, they might be too hard.

Any how, I'd still do it for free, if I could.

Actually, if I knew how, I'd probably donate for Xmas.

[Qloof234]

* the editor itself will be largely unchanged from what you already know and have. It will have the new POTZ features, and a few tweaks (such as seeing Stinkers' hats and accessories in the model), but no quantum changes.

What can we expect in the way of bugfixes? Two notorious bugs that have been plaguing the old Editor are 1) If you accidentally click south of the work-space for a level, the editor MAV's, and 2) An issue with the dialogue editor can cause the editor to give an "Array index out of bounds" error, that can only be fixed via a hex-editor (which also breaks the dialogue structure, unfortunately).

* how to handle custom content. i.e. whether or not to keep one global custom content directory, or link the content specifically to each adventure or "game".

Here's an idea: I don't know how feasible this is, but what about a combination of the two? For instance, an adventure/hub can have its own "local" custom content folder that overrides anything in the "global" folder.

For instance, if both folders have two different level-textures both called "canyon", then for the adventure/hub, the local version of the texture takes precedence. If an adventure uses the texture but doesn't have its own local version, then the version in the "global" folder is used instead.

I don't know how feasible that is, but that'd be one way to circumvent the issues of both having multiple copies of the same file and of multiple textures sharing the same filename.

* how to distribute the editor. I want to make this available free to the community, but it should really be for registered users of POTZ only. I haven't quite figured out how best to do this.

Hmm... What if the editor/player .exe files don't come with PoTZ's model/texture files, so the editor has to be installed to the main PoTZ directory? (Not overwriting any of PoTZ's exes, of course)

Further down the road I'd love to consider making collections of the best "games" and making them available as stand-alone downloads on the main midnightsynergy website. My thoughts on this are
a) most casual users don't want to mess around with the editor, but may be interested in playing some of the best custom adventures.
b) these would be available for sale (at a low price) to generate a (small) revenue stream to support the editor and the site.
c) authors/creators of these worlds would receive payment for their work.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Emerald141]

‎

[Wonderland King]

There will be a call for level designers and testers of the editor, so keep your eyes peeled on the Discussion Forum or our Twitter stream for announcements.

Glad there are updates, but does this all mean that the designing and testing processes you mentioned aren't going to happen?

[mako]

*

* how to distribute the editor. I want to make this available free to the community, but it should really be for registered users of POTZ only. I haven't quite figured out how best to do this.

The current WA editor is available to non-WA users, so unless I'm missing something obvious, I really don't see any reason to change that now.

It's a way so that MS can make money. I'm not saying that the editor is just for money, but they do need it to make the great games we see.

[Wonderman109]

Hi all,

I've been very quiet on the editor front, so I wanted to give you a little heads up of what to expect.

I'm been making very little headway on major changes in the way the editor functions. Truth is, it's too much of a cobbled mess of code over the past 7 years to make many more changes. The few things that were added during the development of POTZ (other than all the new objects) were tough.

I personally don't think this editor needs much new. true, there are some annoying glitches, but they're mostly minor. I recommend you focus on getting the MoFI and PoTZ elements in.

What should you expect?
* the editor itself will be largely unchanged from what you already know and have. It will have the new POTZ features, and a few tweaks (such as seeing Stinkers' hats and accessories in the model), but no quantum changes.

At least for me, that is a big improvement. I've always wanted to be able to see what stinkers in my levels look like without having to compile the unfinished adventure and play it.

* the player will be able to play either individual adventures, or whole "games" (hubs + adventure collections) - not sure what a better word for "game" would be.
* as the level creator, you would have to manually move adventure directories on your drive to create a "game". I.e. you would make a directory "MyGame", copy the various adventures into sub-directories, the adventure that becomes the hub into a hub sub-directory, add a custom logo if wanted. Then that would all be zipped up and posted. Players would download and extract the zip, the player.exe would recognize the new "game" and off they go! (in other words, there is not separate "game compiler").

I think, many people here will like this feature, and I can honestly include myself. But I'd suggest politely, that you put a guide for this section like you have for the WAE, because it seems a little complex.

There are still a couple of open questions - any input/opinions on these would be appreciated:
* how to handle custom content. i.e. whether or not to keep one global custom content directory, or link the content specifically to each adventure or "game".

It would be WAY too complicated if content was adventure or game linked, and people might feel they 'own' textures in their games even though they shouldn't. So, it's not a good idea. Too many problems.

I think it would be simpler to have main custom directories to be used for all adventures and games, given that they will all be under one compiler as of your current plans.

* how to distribute the editor. I want to make this available free to the community, but it should really be for registered users of POTZ only. I haven't quite figured out how best to do this.

To be honest, I have to disagree as well, because it's not entirely fair. I have most of the bought other WA games until now, but my parents have recently gone a lot stricter on what games I can buy online and I can't get PoTZ for a long time to come. However, I still want the editor, not so much for the PoTZ features but for the stinker hats thing you mentioned, and the MoFI elements which I really, really want.

I do understand your point on registration, but it's a mixed topic with mixed opinions. There aren't very many people here who follow WA who haven't bought some of the games as far as I know, given that Wonderland isn't super-popular, no offense. I don't foresee it being a problem.

Further down the road I'd love to consider making collections of the best "games" and making them available as stand-alone downloads on the main midnightsynergy website. My thoughts on this are
a) most casual users don't want to mess around with the editor, but may be interested in playing some of the best custom adventures.
b) these would be available for sale (at a low price) to generate a (small) revenue stream to support the editor and the site.
c) authors/creators of these worlds would receive payment for their work.

I think this idea seems cool, (but I doubt any of my adventures will reach that golden standard.)

So that's it in a nutshell... again, I hope to have more concrete news (and actual release) next month.

Best wishes,
Patrick

Can't wait to hear more!

[Jutomi]

given that Wonderland isn't super-popular, no offense.

I never understood how this series didn't get more popular than it has.

I think this idea seems cool, (but I doubt any of my adventures will reach that golden standard.)

I can relate.

Can't wait to hear more!

I'm excited for what's to come.

[Wonderland King]

Okay, my second question about the WA3E - this is a rather weird one, if you ask me :

Will you still consider our hubs/ adventure collections if we use things like the Brr "fast recovery trick" in them? I'd explain how it works and have example setups in the hub's tutorial levels, but still...

And for the testers and designers, well, please don't give up on the idea. I had an idea for a hub where you have to rescue the WA3E designers so they... well, long story, but I had soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many ideas for it, which I'll have to trash if there are no designers.

[Qloof234]

Just thought of something.

I'm been making very little headway on major changes in the way the editor functions. Truth is, it's too much of a cobbled mess of code over the past 7 years to make many more changes. The few things that were added during the development of POTZ (other than all the new objects) were tough.

Two questions: First off, does this mean that the new Editor will be able to load .wlv/.dia files and such from the old Editor without any in-between steps?

Second off, does this mean that the various Editor exploits (custom object textures, model-swaps, etc.) that users have come up with will still work? (I'm aware this is a bit of a more uncertain question, I can post more specific details if necessary)

[StinkerSquad01]

I kind of feel like people who own POTZ should be the ones to use the editor, because if it was free they could just use the editor to access all the new things. Of course, people will munch me for saying that or rant about how they have self-control, but whatever.

[Wonderland King]

I'm not going to "munch" you for saying that. I completely agree.

[StinkerSquad01]

OH GOOD
But to be serious, maybe you could have a code generated in POTZ or something that can be put into the editor to unlock it or something... wait that's a terrible idea

[Sammy_P]

OH GOOD
But to be serious, maybe you could have a code generated in POTZ or something that can be put into the editor to unlock it or something... wait that's a terrible idea

or do a thing where it's like "please select your potz editor folder so we can verify it you better not mess this up i'm outside your door i'm watching you so dont mess this up (hippo)"

[Jutomi]

Have you met MiToJu?

Because, this sounds like some thing he'd type out about Abarham.

[Sammy_P]

Have you met MiToJu?

Because, this sounds like some thing he'd type out about Abarham.

uh

um

uh

who

[StinkerSquad01]

Well, I'm assuming it's some evil twin since it's every two letter pair switched.

~snip~ oops reading

[Jutomi]

I assure you, MiToJu is my irl brother...

He actually is the lead creator of these things, honest!

...

but now I'm going off topic, aren't I?

I'm fine with it coming when it comes; I think the editor will certainly be worth any wait!
Of course, if it came sooner or the same time as apposed to later, I might giggle for ten seconds with glee...

[yot yot5]

I kind of feel like people who own POTZ should be the ones to use the editor, because if it was free they could just use the editor to access all the new things.

I would agree with you, but people who don't own WA can still download the WA editor to pretty much access the game. So yeah, maybe the POTZ editor should only be available to owners POTZ, but it would only be fair that the WA editor also becomes usable only to owners of WA.

[samuelthx]

So yeah, maybe the POTZ editor should only be available to owners POTZ, but it would only be fair that the WA editor also becomes usable only to owners of WA.

I guess it's a bit too late for that...
Frankly I don't see the point in purposely changing the editor's cost, since it has already remained free for so long. Besides, people would be using the POTZ editor to create levels, so the WA editor would become rarely used, thus making a cost implementation redundant.

[Qloof234]

Well, the WA Editor is pretty limited unless you've been hanging around long enough to know the ins and outs of it like some of us do.

I think having the old Editor as a freebie and making the new Editor/Player available to people who own PoTZ is an okay compromise, personally.

EDIT: Something else just came to mind - MoFI's map object. Can we expect it to work in some way, shape, or form in the Player, or will it still crash as it does in PoTZ?

If you don't have an answer to this (whether you don't yet or just don't), it's fine, just wondering.

[Wonderman109]

given that Wonderland isn't super-popular, no offense.

I never understood how this series didn't get more popular than it has.

PoTZ has helped Wonderland's popularity, but it's still not like CoD or anything. Just saying.

[Midnight Synergy]

Thanks for all the comments. Some more thoughts and answers:

Custom Content: It sounds like the global directory remains the way to go. I'll try to make sure this works well.

Level/Dialog Limits: Levels are 99, Dialogs are 999... more than enough.

Availability: Several of you have raised good points about making the editor freely available to the community without link to WAPOTZ registration. I'll think about this more.

Some specifics (what bugs are fixes, will old levels work on the new editor) I don't know yet...

And...

given that Wonderland isn't super-popular, no offense.

I never understood how this series didn't get more popular than it has.

I don't get it either.

[Wonderland King]

Thanks for all the comments. Some more thoughts and answers:

Custom Content: It sounds like the global directory remains the way to go. I'll try to make sure this works well.

Level/Dialog Limits: Levels are 99, Dialogs are 999... more than enough. Even in hubs?

Availability: Several of you have raised good points about making the editor freely available to the community without link to WAPOTZ registration. I'll think about this more.

Some specifics (what bugs are fixes, will old levels work on the new editor) I don't know yet... PLEEEEEEASE don't fix the fast recovery trick.

And...

given that Wonderland isn't super-popular, no offense.

I never understood how this series didn't get more popular than it has.

I don't get it either. On the bright side, with less people on the forum, it's easier to get to know people in this community better, right?