New Level -- Oxymoron

[Muzozavr]

I never, ever thought there would be a time when I'd use the "generation order" trick in a level...

... but a certain puzzle idea I liked turned out to be almost impossible without it due to the way I built my level. I wasn't about to rebuild the whole level upside down just to make the "default" position the working one.

To make sure everything's fair, here's a quote from Patrick's explanation:

The main game engine sets up a level (once per frame) in rows from left to right, and rows from top to bottom of a level. It figures out what to do with all the elements, then updates the game for the next frame. So a box that was created to the left or above another box is 'created' first and then has a tiny bit of priority. E.G. it's movement is completed a nanosecond before the next box, etc.

So if you find a certain object moving a bit too fast for your liking and you're not about to try a "one millisecond" delay (which requires such expert timing that even I couldn't pull it off so far) then think about the "generation order" trick and reshuffle certain items around.

If you do find a solution that does not involve this trick (or the "one millisecond" delay) then it's probably a loophole, so PM me in that case.

And no, I'm not going to tell you how this trick actually applies to a seemingly "normal" level with no place for such tricky moves. You'll have to figure that out yourself. Enjoy!

EDIT: Mark found a somewhat easier approach, try version B, please. It's a really hasty fix, but it works. Version B has a sign about a hidden ice cube and a generator. Don't blow up the ice cube.

[Mark]

Hi Muzo,

I solved it using everything but one metal box.
But I don't see how the 'generation order' applies to the solution.

Thank you for the challenge!

I hope I did it the intended way.

P.S. I messaged you my solution.

[Muzozavr]

Your solution had a similar overall path, but I overlooked an obvious way to make the "trick" itself way simpler. Of course you didn't have to deal with "generation order" or anything like that. Silly me.

Thanks to you, version B has a fix now. The main path remains similar, but you'll have to think of a somewhat different way to remove a certain object.

[bob roest]

Not a clue.

[Amnon]

Having come late, I am only doing version B.

The first time I got all coins, I faced that ice-cube, so I guess that's the loophole which was fixed. So far I'm struggling to get the blue timer going long enough, for now I keep getting killed inside it.

I'll keep trying later.

[Muzozavr]

for now I keep getting killed inside it.

WOW, that's much closer than I've ever got with such a path... but with my method I could put the blue gate MUCH further away and it'd still work...

The "overall" correct path is quite similar to the ice-cube-fail method, actually, you just have to do one tricky "something" (:twisted:) to make this general path work with a different trick that doesn't require you to explode a barrel at that tile.

Then, once you figure this tricky "something" out and it fails, remember about generation order to make it not fail.

[Amnon]

Well, whatever I do, it seems that I need the boulder for the end, but I lose it earlier on in order to vacate the cyan timer.

[Muzozavr]

Well, whatever I do, it seems that I need the boulder for the end, but I lose it earlier on in order to vacate the cyan timer.

So don't use the boulder. What can you use instead?

It's slightly unfair here because I had to make a second version, which in this case is automatic artificial misdirection. If you had your way blocked by an ice cube, but you've been able to do everything else, you've most likely done the rest of the level correctly, just find a different way to press the cyan timer. Think "what can I use?" and "why does Muzozavr keep mentioning generation order as if it was important?".

The barrel IS needed in this process, by the way, it's just used differently.

[Muzozavr]

Apparently, no one has figured out the cyan timer move yet, so I'll just write down a spoiler in case you've given up:

Position one metal box on the red button, one metal box in the red gate, one metal box two tiles below that, the barrel on the conveyor button. The coin near the red button must not be taken at this point. Jump on the conveyor, push the barrel to the right and immediately return on the conveyor.

If you've placed the right metal boxes in the right places (that's when the "generation order" matters) you'll make one metal box push another on the cyan timer, but the barrel will destroy the box on the red button, destroying both of the other boxes in the process. If you find one box sitting on the cyan timer or if your cyan timer hasn't been pressed at all, switch the metal boxes around until you find an order that works.

[Amnon]

Very nasty and unfair.

Even after knowing about the principle of generation order one could have no idea what it's all about. Needless to say that even after reading your spoiler I needed to try many times.

Frustrating!

However, I didn't even see that move to begin with.
If I did, it wouldn't have helped either.

[Muzozavr]

I think this might be the most "unfair" puzzle I've ever made. It's kind of ironic, because I have a level called "TOTALLY UNFAIR" that was much more fair in its design, despite featuring THE TRAP.

Even the "generation order" explanation does not help much. It would've been a little more fair if I didn't have to plug the loophole very hastily with that ice cube. A more elegant fix would not have distracted people from "this overall path HAS to be correct, I just need to figure out the right move with the remaining items", but alas...

If you use the "default" configuration of the boxes (no switching around) you can theoretically do a very short millisecond delay before entering the conveyor. Thing is, the timing is so delicate that even I couldn't pull this off during testing. I was ready to try and change the design to make it possible without such ridiculous timing... but then I remembered about the generation order. If you use the right order, you can just move non-stop and never worry about any sort of timing, you'll get it every single time.

Interestingly, the player has all the information required (as long as he/she reads about the generation order mechanic) but the puzzle is so ultra-obscure that it still manages to border on unfair ANYWAY.