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Ok, with Cbloopy's new discoveries and Master Dat File Editor, I've made an adventure in which, when you complete the mini-adventure, its star is deactivated. That is good for a start. 
But...
As we know already, the star just... fades out...
The annoying thing is, in WA, the game starts already in a hub location, so all the hub coding is already there.
It seems to me that the star linking to mini-adventure #0 is disabled automatically after completing a mini-adventure, because the default value for disabling the star is 0. Cbloopy, are you sure you got all the necessary data when you (somehow) extracted it from a WA file? Or maybe this was all just a long-thought-out sneaky plan from MS, yes, MS?
Maybe, he just took out that little tiny bit that makes EVERYTHING perfect.
But...
As we know already, the star just... fades out...
The annoying thing is, in WA, the game starts already in a hub location, so all the hub coding is already there.
It seems to me that the star linking to mini-adventure #0 is disabled automatically after completing a mini-adventure, because the default value for disabling the star is 0. Cbloopy, are you sure you got all the necessary data when you (somehow) extracted it from a WA file? Or maybe this was all just a long-thought-out sneaky plan from MS, yes, MS?
Maybe, he just took out that little tiny bit that makes EVERYTHING perfect.
Skype wrote:[7:23:42 AM] Darx: Click here to give me an internet!
[7:23:57 AM] 'a'a: *clicks here*
Let me show you how it's really done.mqdar wrote:Ok, with Cbloopy's new discoveries and Master Dat File Editor, I've made an adventure in which, when you complete the mini-adventure, its star is deactivated. That is good for a start.
But...
As we know already, the star just... fades out...
Attached is a test level showing a few ways to turn a yellow star blue. To make it easier to use, there are no hubs in this test level. I use dialog commands in this test level to trigger the actions that would normally be specified in master.dat.
[EDIT: warning! people have encountered issues with using CMD 5 to delete the star object, when using the actual Hub CMD options in master.dat. With that in mind, you should consider using CMD 2 or CMD 3 instead for the yellow star, even though it will take time to fade out]
Also attached are the WOPs I use to make this possible, they are updated versions of Adventure Star and Generic Square, as well as the new "Adventure Star (Used)" object.
For the test level, you also need to download the attached "star001tile.bmp" in c:\WA Editor v096\CUSTOM.
Yes I'm pretty sure. All bytes in master.dat are accounted for or are 0 in the real games as well, and likewise for the bytes comprising of the Adventure Star WOP.It seems to me that the star linking to mini-adventure #0 is disabled automatically after completing a mini-adventure, because the default value for disabling the star is 0. Cbloopy, are you sure you got all the necessary data when you (somehow) extracted it from a WA file?
It is more likely just a casualty of the changes made to allow you to select an adventure to play. Notice for example how the scoring display is also broken.Or maybe this was all just a long-thought-out sneaky plan from MS, yes, MS?
Maybe, he just took out that little tiny bit that makes EVERYTHING perfect.
For example, maybe with the changes, the game ignores adventure number when storing your scores (since you weren't supposed to be using adventure stars to start them, instead using the selection screen, so normally there's no adventure number to speak of), instead always considering you to have won adventure 0. This is especially evident if you put in an adventure star for #0 in a regular adventure (forget hubs), don't ever step on the adventure star, and just win the regular adventure itself. If you now replay the regular adventure again, the adventure star would become blue.
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Last edited by cbloopy on Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
To be fair, even if that weren't a problem, I would hardly call things "perfect". The game shouldn't be looking in Data\Adventures if it truly supports hubs for custom adventures, and it should automatically copy hub files over to the player profile\current folder when you start playing an adventure. Restart should not break the whole thing like it does now. Scoring should work unlike now. The WA editor should have the hub options editable, so that you wouldn't need MasterDatEditor.exe in the first place. Floing should be supported. And so forth.mqdar wrote:Maybe, he just took out that little tiny bit that makes EVERYTHING perfect.
Basically, the custom adventures editor/player is clearly not designed for hubs right now. It's just that MS didn't bother to take out all the programming that handles hubs, so we can still take advantage of it albeit imperfectly.
(posting from school)
Ya know, I can't help but wonder why the blue star command isn't in the WA Editor - Seeing as its graphic file is still in the Data folder. Coupled in with the gold Adventure Star button, too - and the rest of the buttons.
I mean, stuff like calling for Adventures in the WA Editor v96/Data folder makes sense, because that is something the original game does too. The automatic copying code was likely removed because Patrick didn't expect us to find the Hub functions here.
However, even though it isn't designed for Hubs, we've cracked it open - not enough so that it's an easy enough process for everybody, but enough so that skilled level designers can make a Hub area with seperate adventures.
Ya know, I can't help but wonder why the blue star command isn't in the WA Editor - Seeing as its graphic file is still in the Data folder. Coupled in with the gold Adventure Star button, too - and the rest of the buttons.
I mean, stuff like calling for Adventures in the WA Editor v96/Data folder makes sense, because that is something the original game does too. The automatic copying code was likely removed because Patrick didn't expect us to find the Hub functions here.
However, even though it isn't designed for Hubs, we've cracked it open - not enough so that it's an easy enough process for everybody, but enough so that skilled level designers can make a Hub area with seperate adventures.
I don't think there's a command per se to directly turn yellow stars blue. I believe it's build into the game's handling of yellow stars. Testing shows that the game doesn't just turn the star you stepped on, it will turn any other stars on any other hub levels (even ones you haven't been to before completing the mini-adventure) referring to the same mini-adventure.Qloof234 wrote:Ya know, I can't help but wonder why the blue star command isn't in the WA Editor - Seeing as its graphic file is still in the Data folder.
So my current theory is that as part of the changes that allows custom adventures to be selected and scored, the game loses the ability to associate scores with any adventure numbers other than 0, which would explain why only the adventure stars referring to #0 are turned blue automatically. This could also possibly explain why the scoring screen always show a score of 0 for mini-adventures you entered via a star (unless the star leads you to #0, in which case it would behave upon winning as if you finish the custom adventure itself, consistent with my theory).
Bugs like that are to be expected, this is why hubs aren't an officially supported feature in the WA Editor. Naturally, MS makes the smallest changes needed to support the official features (eg. ability to select custom adventures), and so it's luck what side effects those changes might have on features that are not officially supported but left in the game's programming.
Cbloopy, can't you take a joke?
Let's think. Why is there not a command for chagning a yellow star to a blue star?
Well, first of all, the command would be too specific, and it's easy enough, and usually easier, to simply hard-code a 'special' object, such as an adventure star, to deactivate after the mini-adventure it links to is completed.
MS! Will you ever come here and reply to this topic?! We all want your thoughts, opinions, help, editor updates, encouragement, discouragement... and the list goes on and on and on!
Let's think. Why is there not a command for chagning a yellow star to a blue star?
Well, first of all, the command would be too specific, and it's easy enough, and usually easier, to simply hard-code a 'special' object, such as an adventure star, to deactivate after the mini-adventure it links to is completed.
MS! Will you ever come here and reply to this topic?! We all want your thoughts, opinions, help, editor updates, encouragement, discouragement... and the list goes on and on and on!
Skype wrote:[7:23:42 AM] Darx: Click here to give me an internet!
[7:23:57 AM] 'a'a: *clicks here*
Ummm What's this Genric thing?cbloopy wrote:Let me show you how it's really done.mqdar wrote:Ok, with Cbloopy's new discoveries and Master Dat File Editor, I've made an adventure in which, when you complete the mini-adventure, its star is deactivated. That is good for a start.
But...
As we know already, the star just... fades out...
Attached is a test level showing a few ways to turn a yellow star blue. To make it easier to use, there are no hubs in this test level. I use dialog commands in this test level to trigger the actions that would normally be specified in master.dat.
Also attached are the WOPs I use to make this possible, they are updated versions of Adventure Star and Generic Square, as well as the new "Adventure Star (Used)" object.
For the test level, you also need to download the attached "star001tile.bmp" in c:\WA Editor v096\CUSTOM.
Yes I'm pretty sure. All bytes in master.dat are accounted for or are 0 in the real games as well, and likewise for the bytes comprising of the Adventure Star WOP.It seems to me that the star linking to mini-adventure #0 is disabled automatically after completing a mini-adventure, because the default value for disabling the star is 0. Cbloopy, are you sure you got all the necessary data when you (somehow) extracted it from a WA file?
It is more likely just a casualty of the changes made to allow you to select an adventure to play. Notice for example how the scoring display is also broken.Or maybe this was all just a long-thought-out sneaky plan from MS, yes, MS?
Maybe, he just took out that little tiny bit that makes EVERYTHING perfect.
For example, maybe with the changes, the game ignores adventure number when storing your scores (since you weren't supposed to be using adventure stars to start them, instead using the selection screen, so normally there's no adventure number to speak of), instead always considering you to have won adventure 0. This is especially evident if you put in an adventure star for #0 in a regular adventure (forget hubs), don't ever step on the adventure star, and just win the regular adventure itself. If you now replay the regular adventure again, the adventure star would become blue.
Hu Hummm... We DON'T want Ms's DIScourages.mqdar wrote:Cbloopy, can't you take a joke?
Let's think. Why is there not a command for chagning a yellow star to a blue star?
Well, first of all, the command would be too specific, and it's easy enough, and usually easier, to simply hard-code a 'special' object, such as an adventure star, to deactivate after the mini-adventure it links to is completed.
MS! Will you ever come here and reply to this topic?! We all want your thoughts, opinions, help, editor updates, encouragement, discouragement... and the list goes on and on and on!
Sorry for DP but anyway,cbloopy wrote:I don't think there's a command per se to directly turn yellow stars blue. I believe it's build into the game's handling of yellow stars. Testing shows that the game doesn't just turn the star you stepped on, it will turn any other stars on any other hub levels (even ones you haven't been to before completing the mini-adventure) referring to the same mini-adventure.Qloof234 wrote:Ya know, I can't help but wonder why the blue star command isn't in the WA Editor - Seeing as its graphic file is still in the Data folder.
So my current theory is that as part of the changes that allows custom adventures to be selected and scored, the game loses the ability to associate scores with any adventure numbers other than 0, which would explain why only the adventure stars referring to #0 are turned blue automatically. This could also possibly explain why the scoring screen always show a score of 0 for mini-adventures you entered via a star (unless the star leads you to #0, in which case it would behave upon winning as if you finish the custom adventure itself, consistent with my theory).
Bugs like that are to be expected, this is why hubs aren't an officially supported feature in the WA Editor. Naturally, MS makes the smallest changes needed to support the official features (eg. ability to select custom adventures), and so it's luck what side effects those changes might have on features that are not officially supported but left in the game's programming.
Isn't there a repeatable option there? \
That only works for General Command buttons I believe. Moreover, it would only delete the yellow star, not turning it to blue (which is internally treated as a different type of button from yellow in the game). Worst of all, it might not work correctly depending on when exactly the game starts to save state for the hub--if it does so after the button is deleted as a result of repeatable set to no, then if you abort you wouldn't be able to re-enter the adventure again.Clifford wrote:Sorry for DP but anyway,
Isn't there a repeatable option there?
cbloopy (Turning Yellow Stars Blue) wrote:We use CMD 5 rather than CMD 2, because "destroy" is instantaneous. "Deactivate" triggers a fade-out.
Yes, it's true that CMD 2 or 3 will fade out the star, but three things are present here that make it better.
First off. The fade-out from Gold to Blue looks much better than the spontaneous turning from Gold to Blue.
Second off. CMD 2 or 3 are guarenteed to work, and yet all of the times I've tried CMD 5 - except once - on the Gold Stars, it's failed.
Third off. You only use one command, and it both activates the Blue Star and deactivates the Gold Star (Command 3).
I'm not sure if it's a problem with what I'm doing now, but it works fine now with CMD 3.
(I don't mean to be rude here - I just saw an oppurtunity for my PW bubbles and seized it)
Last edited by Qloof234 on Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well, my idea was not to see any transitions at all, but to create the illusion that the star is already blue when you return to the hub, like in the actual game. This is helped by the fact that the game does the zoom-out thing when it returns to the hub, which helps distract the player from seeing any sort of transition.Qloof234 wrote:First off. The fade-out from Gold to Blue looks much better than the spontaneous turning from Gold to Blue.
Hmm, I admit I haven't tried that out with the hub command options. I wonder if CMD 5 works at all on anything with the hub commands.Second off. CMD 2 or 3 are guarenteed to work, and yet all of the times I've tried CMD 5 on the Gold Stars, it's failed.
If the yellow star starts off visible, then my method also only needs one command (just destroy the yellow star so the blue star underneath is revealed).Third off. You only use one command, and it both activates the Blue Star and deactivates the Gold Star (Command 3).
You only need two commands in the case where the yellow star itself starts off invisible until activated. Command 3 doesn't help you in that case (at least not the way you have in mind) because the stars need to transition as follows:
1) no yellow, no blue
2) yellow, no blue
3) no yellow, blue
With both objects set to the same ID for 2->3. But then how do you do 1->2? You can't, not with both objects set to the same ID. If they have different IDs, then you need two CMDs to do 2->3.
Believe me, I have thought all this out very carefully when I demonstrated my methods.
And I don't claim that my methods are the only ones that work (I even encourage people to find other ways to do it at the end of my test level).First thing: Well, actually, I got it to work once, and for a split second the star was gold as the Hub reloaded. With command 3, it fades out as soon as the hub loads entirely.cbloopy wrote:Well, my idea was not to see any transitions at all, but to create the illusion that the star is already blue when you return to the hub, like in the actual game. This is helped by the fact that the game does the zoom-out thing when it returns to the hub, which helps distract the player from seeing any sort of transition.Qloof234 wrote:First off. The fade-out from Gold to Blue looks much better than the spontaneous turning from Gold to Blue.
Hmm, I admit I haven't tried that out with the hub command options. I wonder if CMD 5 works at all on anything with the hub commands.Second off. CMD 2 or 3 are guarenteed to work, and yet all of the times I've tried CMD 5 on the Gold Stars, it's failed.
Second: It does, as I said, I got it once. However, it just seemed to break everything while I was working on CP before.
Gonna go fix my post now (about getting CMD 5 working once)
Wow, that sounds pretty bad, what happens exactly when it "seemed to break everything"?Qloof234 wrote:Second: It does, as I said, I got it once. However, it just seemed to break everything while I was working on CP before.
But yeah, my choice for using CMD 5 rather than CMD 2/3 was solely for speed of transition. If you still manage to catch glimpses of the star being yellow then maybe a fade-out would be better. Actually, if you're using CMD 3, you might want to try reverse things so that the blue is on top of the yellow. Then as soon as the blue appears it should cover up the fading yellow star, maybe that would work better for "instantaneous" transition?
How did it break? Well...
The blue star showed up, as I told it to. However, the gold star turned invisible, and still worked. Somehow, this also made a red gate not open.
As for the Blue-over-yellow fading, Yes, that would work. In my opinion, though, the fading Gold looks a lot... smoother, to be honest.
Actually, in fact, there is a bit of an oversight in the tutorial.
It says we can change the Z positioning of Gold Stars, but the .WOPs you posted have just its ID, Active, and Data0 (adventure number).
I was confused by this, which is why I switched from trying CMD 5 to CMD 3.
The blue star showed up, as I told it to. However, the gold star turned invisible, and still worked. Somehow, this also made a red gate not open.
As for the Blue-over-yellow fading, Yes, that would work. In my opinion, though, the fading Gold looks a lot... smoother, to be honest.
Actually, in fact, there is a bit of an oversight in the tutorial.
It says we can change the Z positioning of Gold Stars, but the .WOPs you posted have just its ID, Active, and Data0 (adventure number).
I was confused by this, which is why I switched from trying CMD 5 to CMD 3.
Are you sure? You did use the version of Adventure Star.wop in the attached HubStarWOPs.zip, right? (Not whatever ones I might've posted earlier.) I just re-download it and try it out and I got ZAdjust in there.Qloof234 wrote:It says we can change the Z positioning of Gold Stars, but the .WOPs you posted have just its ID, Active, and Data0 (adventure number).
Maybe you have multiple versions of adventure stars WOPs in your ObjectPresets\LevelExit folder? Might want to remove the older versions.
Anyway, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that CMD 5 might have problems, seeing that the actual game definitely never use that CMD for the stars, while it at least uses activate (CMD 1) for the yellow stars so deactivate would stand to reason to work also.
Cbloopy, Here IS a challenge!!!
Do YOU think, you can reprogram the editor and player (mainly player) to have MOFI features? Also maybe custom magic, custom models and custom music.
Do YOU think, you can reprogram the editor and player (mainly player) to have MOFI features? Also maybe custom magic, custom models and custom music.
Last edited by Clifford on Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.