New Adventure - Alcatraz

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Lucky-Luc
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New Adventure - Alcatraz

Post by Lucky-Luc » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:10 am

So, I promised to stick around this time. Unfortunately I've been really busy the last few months, so my follow-up adventure took a bit longer.

Anyway, this is a really short adventure that just tries to teach you a trick (not a glitch) that's hopefully new to at least some of you. I also violated my own rule of always giving the player a spy-eye, but the adventure is so small that you can see everything you need almost right away.

Hope you enjoy! :D

(by the way, really looking forward to the release of WA3E and playing some of your hubs. I also have a project in mind that just grows bigger the longer I think about it, but considering how long it takes me to create a single adventure, this might take a while ;) )
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yot yot5
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Post by yot yot5 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:22 pm

This is an awesome puzzle! I haven't solved it yet, but I think I'm making some progress!

So yeah, even if I don't ever solve it, thanks for such a great adventure! :D
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Lucky-Luc
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Post by Lucky-Luc » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:29 pm

Haha, thanks a lot, but better wait until you know the solution. You might hate me and the puzzle afterwards ;)

Anyway, don't worry about not being able to solve it. I'm prette sure I'll start posting hints again sooner or later, but obvously I'm gonna wait a bit longer before doing so.
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Jutomi
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Post by Jutomi » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:35 pm

Thanks for the adventure! :D

It was really conbafflating; especially when I didn't think about the fourth gate.

Apparently I just had to wait a few seconds. :mrgreen:
Your only little stinker that's absolutely NOT a z-bot by this name,
Jutomi~ :mrgreen:

Also, if you want to see my level list, here it is! :D
(Also: List of Hubs, WA Manual)
Oh, and my YT wonderland channel. Forgot about that.
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Lucky-Luc
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Post by Lucky-Luc » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:01 pm

Thanks :D Congratulations on solving it! Do you mind telling me your solution, though? You're comment kind of makes me feel like you've found an alternate solution (can't tell you why, that might already be a spoiler).
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Jutomi
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Post by Jutomi » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:59 am

I'll private message you. :)
Your only little stinker that's absolutely NOT a z-bot by this name,
Jutomi~ :mrgreen:

Also, if you want to see my level list, here it is! :D
(Also: List of Hubs, WA Manual)
Oh, and my YT wonderland channel. Forgot about that.
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Lucky-Luc
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Post by Lucky-Luc » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:56 pm

Okay, since Jutomi found an interessting alternate solution (which I couldn't manage to reproduce yet, you must either be a lot more skilled or patient than me ;) ) but seemingly noone has found the intended one yet, here are a few things about it:

- It does not require particularily tricky timing / luck.
- It would still work if there were more doors than five (though there is an upper bound, probably 9 or something).
- The required trick might not be very intuitive, but it makes sense when you think about it (that's why I refuse to call it a glitch) and once you get it, the adventure becomes a piece of cake.

So, these weren't very specific, I'm gonna post stronger hints later ;)
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samuelthx
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Post by samuelthx » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:17 am

When 2 great puzzle makers post up their creations on the same day, it calls for a celebration! :P

I can't seem to get the trick. What on Alcatraz?!

I know that I need to set up a system to toggle the diamond button on and off. I also have a feeling it has something to do with chomper logic, but what?

Thanks for the headache, Luc :lol:. Do hold off the hints for a few more days though.
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Lucky-Luc
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Post by Lucky-Luc » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:47 pm

Okay, maybe it's time for a hint now. You're on the right track, basically, though only setting it up isn't enough. A few more hints:
Though Jutomi's solution is using it, the spikey ball is just a red herring for the intended solution.
Chompers aren't really that smart. Sometimes they don't see a way to reach you even though there is, and sometimes it's the other way round...
The second one might be a bit cryptic, but maybe it helps if you think about it long enough. 8)
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Lucky-Luc
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Post by Lucky-Luc » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:42 pm

Another day, another hint? Still cryptic, but maybe it helps:
This adventure confirms the proverb that when one door closes, another one opens. However, and this is much more important, this once again works the other way round, too.
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Lucky-Luc
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Post by Lucky-Luc » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:39 pm

Anyone suceeded yet? If not, here are a few things about chomper movement that you need to understand before you can solve this puzzle:
1. There are two types of chomper movement, which I'll call "brained" and "unbrained" in analogy to DROD. Brained chompers think there is a way to reach you, while unbrained chompers don't see a way to do so.
2. As mentioned in "Detours" (POTZ), a braine chomper always tries to take the shortest path to you. To be more specific, it moves to the adjectant square that is the least steps away from you (I haven't completely examined how it breaks ties yet) and reevaluates the situation once it is there.
3. However, unbrained chompers order the squares by looking at the pythagorean distance between each adjectant square (including the one it stands on) and move to the square which is - beeline-wise - closest to you.
4. While this generally works out pretty well, there are a few quirks. For example, teleporters are always considered as obstacles, and pathmapping doesn't seem to recognize diagonal moves. Also, a spring for example doesn't hinder the chomper from thinking there's a path to you.
So, now you know (almost) everything you need to know to solve this adventure. Go! ;)
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|Cookie|
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Post by |Cookie| » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:24 pm

This adventure looks amazing!
However, I haven't beat it yet, my guess so far is that I will not need pop, I am not sure about Brr though.. :?
Previously known as "kidkidaaa1"
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yot yot5
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Post by yot yot5 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:57 pm

EUREKA!!!

Wow. Just... wow. I can honestly say that this is one of the neatest puzzles I've ever solved. It unfolded a bit like one of Mark's RTW levels; completely baffling until that light-bulb of inspiration ignites! I am truly amazed at how perfectly the solution worked itself out, too. You just get everything in the right place and bang - you can walk through those gates as if they aren't even there!

So yeah. A fantastic puzzle. Thanks for making it!
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samuelthx
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Post by samuelthx » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:23 am

YES YES YES YES YES!
I solved it! :D
I had to read through the hints very carefully though. Chomper logic sure is confusing. Thanks for enlightening us with this trick!
Lucky-Luc wrote:It would still work if there were more doors than five (though there is an upper bound, probably 9 or something).
I don't think this trick can be performed for 9 doors though.
Lucky-Luc wrote:...it makes sense when you think about it
Indeed it does! Thanks for the amazing puzzle!
My only complaint is that this adventure felt like a reading comprehension exercise, with me having to read between the lines for your very subtle clues (you're really good at giving cryptic hints). Granted, I had to think out how to put those clues into action, but still...
This is only my opinion, so please don't get offended. In actual fact, I wouldn't mind if you continue making these kinds of adventures. I could learn even more tricks! :)

EDIT: Jutomi, would you mind sharing your alternate solution?
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yot yot5
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Post by yot yot5 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:41 am

samuelthx wrote:My only complaint is that this adventure felt like a reading comprehension exercise, with me having to read between the lines for your very subtle clues (you're really good at giving cryptic hints).
So let me get this straight: you think the adventure was bad because Lucky-Luc's hints were too cryptic?

...Okay then.
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samuelthx
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Post by samuelthx » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:13 pm

yot yot5 wrote:
samuelthx wrote:My only complaint is that this adventure felt like a reading comprehension exercise, with me having to read between the lines for your very subtle clues (you're really good at giving cryptic hints).
So let me get this straight: you think the adventure was bad because Lucky-Luc's hints were too cryptic?

...Okay then.
Do you think that would be reasonable of me?

What I meant was that the adventure was based not on elements in-game, but on chomper logic. I had absolutely no clue about what sort of trick had to be used. I tried many methods, but I didn't know the trick that was to be employed, since the logic exploited wasn't known in-game at all (in contrast to the Flying-Blink trick). So the adventure became like a reading comprehension, forcing me to analyse and decode the hints to solve the adventure. Again, as I would like to point out, this isn't necessarily bad, but it's certainly unfair, hence my complaint.

EDIT: Just to let you get this straight:
1. I never did say this adventure was bad. I said it was amazing.
2. My complaint is not about the hints. I love cryptic hints, and I try to give subtle clues when others ask for solutions :twisted:
3. What my "complaint" (since it isn't really one) is about--This adventure used a trick that (I presume) none of us knew about, and it became an adventure where I had to decode hints, instead of using in-game elements. AGAIN, I don't mind this type of adventure. Who wouldn't want to learn some new tricks? :)

Jutomi, if you don't wish to share the solution with everyone, do PM me. Although I think it would be nice if you did post it here, though. :)
Last edited by samuelthx on Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lucky-Luc
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Post by Lucky-Luc » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:30 pm

Nah, I think what he (I guess?) is saying that he felt like the puzzle consisted more of deciphering the hints than the puzzle itself, and that might be a legit point. I found it rather difficult to give hints without giving away the whole solution. He didn't say the adventure was bad because of that, did he?

Also, I'm not offended at all. Even if you disliked the adventure. Of course I'm happier if you guys enjoy it, but critisism is always welcome, as long as it's focused on the adventure and not on me as a person :P .

Anyways, I'm really really glad you both thought it was a good puzzle. I was afraid that, after figuring it out, you would think it was a cheap trick. Oh, and congratulations to both of you! I guess this turned out to be quite tricky again.
Chomper logic sure is confusing. Thanks for enlightening us with this trick!
Heh, yeah, it is, but I think it holds quite a lot of puzzle potential yet to be exploited. I've been enjoying working out the little quirks the WA engine lately, so who knows, maybe I'll find another trick to teach you soonly ;) .
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samuelthx
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Post by samuelthx » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:45 pm

Lucky-Luc wrote:Nah, I think what he (I guess?) is saying that he felt like the puzzle consisted more of deciphering the hints than the puzzle itself, and that might be a legit point. I found it rather difficult to give hints without giving away the whole solution. He didn't say the adventure was bad because of that, did he?
Yep, that's what I meant. Thanks for understanding. :P I hope my english didn't give the impression that I was upset at the subtlety of your hints; that'd be embarrassing.
Lucky-Luc wrote:Also, I'm not offended at all. Even if you disliked the adventure. Of course I'm happier if you guys enjoy it, but critisism is always welcome, as long as it's focused on the adventure and not on me as a person :P .
I found this adventure amazing. It required me to think out of the box, even with all those hints.
And nah, it wasn't a cheap trick. (Although it was, as mentioned, somewhat like reading and reasoning? I dunno...) Now that I think of it, it was actually quite intuitive. :D
Lucky-Luc wrote:I've been enjoying working out the little quirks the WA engine lately, so who knows, maybe I'll find another trick to teach you soonly ;) .
Yay! :D
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Jutomi
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Post by Jutomi » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:57 pm

I'd not mind posting this solution if Lucky'd not mind.

Though, I'll send you a private message, any how. :D

This solution's more about timing, as well as proper placement;
and, in addition, it can work for exactly five times. :lol:

(The last one took the longest, the one before it nearly rose up while I was walking on it, but still.)
Your only little stinker that's absolutely NOT a z-bot by this name,
Jutomi~ :mrgreen:

Also, if you want to see my level list, here it is! :D
(Also: List of Hubs, WA Manual)
Oh, and my YT wonderland channel. Forgot about that.
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Wonderland King
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Post by Wonderland King » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:01 am

Wow, that was clever. Even after seeing the hints, it took a while. I'm also curious about Jutomi's solution...

and also, thanks for that little note at the beginning - now I know why I got fired from my job as a prison warden. :lol:
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Lucky-Luc
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Post by Lucky-Luc » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:24 pm

Jutomi wrote:I'd not mind posting this solution if Lucky'd not mind.
Sure, go ahead! It's a neat solution, I would've posted it myself, but I figured it was your right to do so.
Wonderland King wrote:Wow, that was clever. Even after seeing the hints, it took a while. I'm also curious about Jutomi's solution...

and also, thanks for that little note at the beginning - now I know why I got fired from my job as a prison warden. :lol:
Thanks! :D Had I known that, I would've told you earlier ;)
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Jutomi
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Post by Jutomi » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:39 pm

Oh, all so, I managed to finish it via the intended solution. :mrgreen:

I'd post it, but I feel a bit shy of doing so, for some reason. :lol:
Your only little stinker that's absolutely NOT a z-bot by this name,
Jutomi~ :mrgreen:

Also, if you want to see my level list, here it is! :D
(Also: List of Hubs, WA Manual)
Oh, and my YT wonderland channel. Forgot about that.
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