General Questions

[Midnight Synergy]

Have a general question? This is the place to post it!

[Stinky]

Hoi!

I'm juuust testing. Looks noice!

[FinnThor]

How long have you been planning to release the source code? (And when are you going to do it?)

Yes, it was very necessary to ask this question, since it's probably going to be asked anyway.

[Midnight Synergy]

I've been thinking about it for a few months now, but got serious about two months ago. The initial release is just around the corner (I'd say by the weekend).

[Muzozavr]

So, this is very much theoretical, but...

What am I NOT allowed to do with this?
Again, I offer this code with the intention of keeping the game and the community vibrant for hopefully many years to come. It is not meant for anyone to make money with, circumvent ways to pay for the actual games, or otherwise act in damaging or unkind ways. Since I cannot really police this, I ask you to act with honour. Using this code for illegal activity is not “sticking it to the man” or “standing up to big-business”, you are simply hurting an independent game developer and community that has tried to bring you enjoyable games for many years.

Obviously, the resource files are not released (it's not free, duh), but the code is. This is like Doom now, which is open source, allowing for source ports, remakes and, interestingly enough, new games based on the engine.

There's a project called FreeDoom which aims to recreate Doom with a new set of levels, graphics, music, etc... so far it hasn't been doing that great, but the theoretical possibility is there. It'd be free and it'd be compatible with all existing WADs, mods made for Doom, etc... AFAIK, theoretically you can even sell an original game based on the Doom engine.

So, step 1: if someone made a WA-like using your source code, but with entirely new graphics, music, sound, levels, etc... would that be OK to release it for free? Is that allowed?

Step 2: if someone used parts of your code/engine to make a game similar to WA, but with some new features, additions and the like and then decided to sell it, giving credits for the code when necessary... would that be OK with you? Is that allowed?

The latter is technically under the "make money with it" part, but is enough of a different thing that I wanted to ask separately. This is purely theoretical so far, I don't have enough experience to do any of that, LOL. Even with a team.

[Midnight Synergy]

Both versions would be perfectly acceptable as free releases on the forum - in fact that would be incredible!

If it is for profit, then generally no. I would not want someone to grab my hard work and then try to profit from it. However, if someone (or a team) were to make a completely new Wonderland game using the existing engine, I would be happy to consider an official release on Midnight Synergy with some form of profit-sharing involved. But that is highly theoretical at this point, of course. I have no idea how much interest/work this open source version will spark - and we can cross those bridges if/when we get to them.

Patrick

[HumanGamer]

I have two questions:

1. I would love to port this to another engine when I get the time. Such as MonoGame or Unity. The issue comes about with the resources. MonoGame doesn't use png, bmp, b3d, etc. It uses xnb files. And unity has it's own way of dealing with resources where they are all embedded into some proprietary archives in the data folder. How would I be able to deal with this? If I can't redistribute the resources, then there is no point. I was thinking that maybe MS could put some kind of login on the site which could verify ownership of the games somehow from an api?

2. I would love to get the games running on consoles like the Nintendo Switch at some point after getting it ported to another engine as mentioned in Q1. If I could ever get something like that accomplished, the issue becomes that you need a developer license to be able to test or develop for consoles. I can't do that as I don't own the license to these games. MS could probably get a license if he needed to. Is this possible and how would it be handled?

Edit: One more question.

3. Can the code be distributed via github or gitlab? That would make it very easy to track code changes. If MS releases the code on github we'd be able to track practically every change. If it's not officially released on github/gitlab can I put it there myself for my own projects? If not I suppose I could make a private repository for it, but that kind of defeats the purpose of "Open Source".

[Cyndanera]

removed

[cloudrac3r]

This is incredible. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

[rainbowmon]

2. I would love to get the games running on consoles like the Nintendo Switch at some point after getting it ported to another engine as mentioned in Q1.

I'm just going to put this out there now... If Midnight Synergy allowed the Wonderland series to be ported to Switch, I'D BUY IT IN A HEARTBEAT. There's a reason I consider these games my third favorite game series ever.

[PhoenixBlaze]

WA on the Switch would work perfectly. You could use the left joystick to walk and the right joystick is your "aimer" (the circle you use to cast magic and interact). You could press A to talk to people and read signs, and switch to magic with B. X could pull up your inventory.

[Cyndanera]

WA on the Switch would work perfectly. You could use the left joystick to walk and the right joystick is your "aimer" (the circle you use to cast magic and interact). You could press A to talk to people and read signs, and switch to magic with B. X could pull up your inventory.

But would need to be recoded in c++ but not the whole thing the objects, menu could be coded lua.

But I would like a switch port and 3ds port.

[HumanGamer]

But would need to be recoded in c++ but not the whole thing the objects, menu could be coded lua.

If ported to C# which I plan to do, It can be converted to MonoGame which is compatible with the Nintendo Switch.

[Cyndanera]

But c++ is standard and faster and it can use lua for scripting. Including all the switch libs.

[HumanGamer]

But c++ is standard and faster and it can use lua for scripting. Including all the switch libs.

true, but C# is easier and for modding support, it can be more powerful than lua as mods could change or replace methods in the code.

I personally prefer C# as it's the language I'm most fluent programming in.

You could use something else with your project. It's going to be open source after all!

[Cyndanera]

But c++ is standard and faster and it can use lua for scripting. Including all the switch libs.

true, but C# is easier and for modding support, it can be more powerful than lua as mods could change or replace methods in the code.

I personally prefer C# as it's the language I'm most fluent programming in.

You could use something else with your project. It's going to be open source after all!

If it is coded in lua it can have modding support cause all you have to do is change the code in the scripts. you can pretty much script the full game in lua if you wanted to. sonic 06 was pretty much scripted in lua, so it would be possible to fix the bugs in the game.

And When will the bb source be public for download?

[Midnight Synergy]

Hi folks,

some answers to the questions asked:

Github vs here:

For the initial release, the license will be for use on the forum only, so not on Github. I want to take this slowly and keep it in a limited space with a limited number of people on it at first. Please understand that I'm a little nervous about this - it's a big step to set your "baby" free like that. So let's keep things on the forum at first. Depending on where this goes, Github is an option for the future if needed.

However, I warn you, this code is messy, and Github may not even be such a great option. This is not nicely written object oriented code that someone can take out a piece of and say "I'll work on this" - it may have started like that in 2005 (when I first started the WA code), but by now it's a bowl of spaghetti (or a house made of cards, or an unstable jenga tower, or whatever your favourite picture for a messy code is).

So for now it's intended for the forum only.


Reworking in C, releasing for the Switch, etc:

In theory I have no objection to this... but that is a hugely ambitious project. Unless you already have some experience creating and releasing indie games on these platforms, this may not be a good project to tackle. I don't want to be discouraging, but also would caution to be realistic. This may be many months of work with many possible pitfalls and dead ends. And if you do have the skills and the time, would you not rather work on an original game?


Resources:

Again, these cannot be distributed or altered in any form. Remember that some resources are not created by me and are only licensed for use in the game - so you may be coming up against other people's copyright claims as well. I'm sorry if that restricts some of the more ambitious projects.


Again, let me take small steps. If it turns out that some of you really do have the resources, drive, time, skill, etc to attempt a port to another system, then I'm of course happy to consider this seriously with you.

[HumanGamer]

But c++ is standard and faster and it can use lua for scripting. Including all the switch libs.

true, but C# is easier and for modding support, it can be more powerful than lua as mods could change or replace methods in the code.

I personally prefer C# as it's the language I'm most fluent programming in.

You could use something else with your project. It's going to be open source after all!

If it is coded in lua it can have modding support cause all you have to do is change the code in the scripts. you can pretty much script the full game in lua if you wanted to. sonic 06 was pretty much scripted in lua, so it would be possible to fix the bugs in the game.

Yes, of course, I fully understand the benefits of it. However! Lua, is not object oriented afaik and C# would give more control for modders. In fact, when I started Wonderland+, I debated on whether to use Lua, or C#, and decided to go the C# route in the end. I realized that Lua isn't the best language to use for this as the main language to write wonderland in imo.

What I was thinking for W+ (and now this) is use C# AND Json+Lua. That way it would work more like Minecraft Datapacks where you can do small changes with the json/lua and do core changes with C#.

Another thing to point out is that when I say C#, I mean C# from a coding perspective and during development. C# binaries can be converted to C++ very easily with IL2CPP while keeping the benefits of both.

[HumanGamer]

Wow, MS posted while I was typing! lol

Reworking in C, releasing for the Switch, etc:

In theory I have no objection to this... but that is a hugely ambitious project. Unless you already have some experience creating and releasing indie games on these platforms, this may not be a good project to tackle. I don't want to be discouraging, but also would caution to be realistic. This may be many months of work with many possible pitfalls and dead ends. And if you do have the skills and the time, would you not rather work on an original game?

With how much I've dedicated my time over the last few years to continuing to developer Wonderland+ with console support in mind, I can certainly say, I have the motivation to do so. My skills on the other hand, well, I've never worked with game consoles as you need a developer license to do so. I am however in contact with people who have made switch games and helped me to understand what is necessary for the Nintendo Switch. They also recommended that I use MonoGame or Unity as they are both in a language I am greatly familiar with.

Resources:

Again, these cannot be distributed or altered in any form. Remember that some resources are not created by me and are only licensed for use in the game - so you may be coming up against other people's copyright claims as well. I'm sorry if that restricts some of the more ambitious projects.

Can we have the contact information for these people, or would it be best to contact you when it comes to that?
When it comes to porting to other engines. With W+ what I've been doing is that I made a launcher that will refuse to download the resources from my website unless you have ALL the games that contain said resources installed on your computer (using a registry check). Since some files needed to be converted and placed in different folder etc. and doing so on install could be problematic, so that's what I came up with. I hope this doesn't mean I have to end that project because of the need to distribute the resources like so. As I said, you must already have the games installed and thus have the resources for it to even work, so I assume it's fine. If so, how do you feel about me (or anyone) doing so with WA and this open source release?

Again, let me take small steps. If it turns out that some of you really do have the resources, drive, time, skill, etc to attempt a port to another system, then I'm of course happy to consider this seriously with you.

I would love to work with you. I really am dedicated to this game series and the Nintendo Switch is my favourite console and I always feel like this is the one game I want for it.
However, my skills are fairly limited when it comes to consoles and I have never actually made any serious games before, only prototypes (and troll games for friends) in Blitz3D, Unity, and C++/OpenGL. So for the moment, I will not be asking too much from you as I'm not 100% sure I will be able to get it working on the Nintendo Switch. It's something I'd love to do, yes. I believe I'm capable, yes. But I'm not sure if it will work out. If I do get the game running on an engine supporting game consoles, then I will speak to you about it then.

[Cyndanera]

Again, let me take small steps. If it turns out that some of you really do have the resources, drive, time, skill, etc to attempt a port to another system, then I'm of course happy to consider this seriously with you.

I would love to work with you.
My Skills are C++, Game Development\Design.

I also wondering what is thwart.sfk??

[Midnight Synergy]

Can we have the contact information for these people, or would it be best to contact you when it comes to that?

If (!) and when it gets to that, this all has to be co-ordinated through me.

With W+ what I've been doing is that I made a launcher that will refuse to download the resources from my website unless you have ALL the games that contain said resources installed on your computer (using a registry check). Since some files needed to be converted and placed in different folder etc. and doing so on install could be problematic, so that's what I came up with.

That seems like a reasonable solution to me. Again, my intention is never to limit the creativity of the folks on this forum to continue creating Wonderland related work to share with the community. In most cases when users have asked me if they can do this or that, I have said yes. I just cannot give a blanket approval to put all of the game's content out there freely.


As for the switch development etc, I really feel we're getting way ahead of ourselves here talking about this already (the code hasn't even been released yet!).

[Midnight Synergy]

Oh, and remember that I'm not really active in game development at this time, so there isn't really an option to seriously "work with me". Sorry to be blunt.

[Cyndanera]

So Midnight Synergy, when do you think the BB source link will be public on the forums?? Just wondering..

[HumanGamer]

So Midnight Synergy, when do you think the BB source link will be public on the forums?? Just wondering..

Probably before the weekend or on the weekend but we shouldn't really push him...

[Cyndanera]

So Midnight Synergy, when do you think the BB source link will be public on the forums?? Just wondering..

Probably before the weekend or on the weekend but we shouldn't really push him...

Okay, sorry.