Chip's Challenge Game Discussion

Yzfm · Post by **Yzfm** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:25 pm

Well, before I made this topic I made a search if there are topics for this.. I didn't find so...

This game is a good maze game. It IS really interesting.

This game is old but interesting, I didn't beat it yet. I'm stuck on "SPOOKS" level.

Who else knows this game?? We may post pics too..

Technos72 · Post by **Technos72** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:36 pm

Chomper was here

Yzfm · Post by **Yzfm** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:44 pm

Ummm... I think you mean Teeth

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:01 pm

It sucks.

/thread

(Actually the Lynx ruleset (under Tile World) is tolerable, though it still failed to really catch my interest. The much more popular Windows port made by MS, though, is nigh unbearable)

The following is a copypaste (with some typos fixed) of my own post, written long ago in a much older topic.

*****************

No. I may be the only one here who thinks that, but Chip's Challenge sucks. It had an epic set of objects, but wasted it all in so-so stage design and the MS Windows version added control problems that made even the good levels infuriating, so the MS version is double the suck.

The stage design.
First, for a puzzle game, there are surprisingly many action-only levels where you basically outrun the enemies. Doing it a few times is interesting. Doing it WITHIN a puzzle level is interesting. Repeating the same thing as many times as in Chip's Challenge is BORING.

Second, for a puzzle game there's a surprising amount of TRIAL-AND-ERROR -- and boring trial-and-error at that. Even otherwise good puzzles often have a grand amount of fake walls, making them more annoying than interesting. Some of the less interesting levels are literally mazes with fake walls PLASTERED all over them. Blocks can have dangers under them, killing you instantly. (Yes, I know about the Lynx version and block slapping, shut up, it was an exploit and wasn't even intended by the designers. Not to mention, it's not possible to do on the MS version)

And the worst thing is, those trial-and-error elements are depressingly repetitive. I actually LIKED I Wanna Be The Guy and only stopped playing when it became totally impossible for me. But it was fun, action games receive the trial-and-error treatment better than puzzle games, and the traps were creative enough to keep you interested.

There are also levels where the inexcusably small field of view is abused against you to hide what's on the other side (the only time it was well used was in "Totally Unfair" which was awesome... though very very difficult to understand)

Third, mazes. Too many of them. A few were good, but most weren't. Too many levels like "SCAVENGER HUNT" are boring.

Fourth, the force floor mazes. In a turn-based game those would've been ridiculously awesome. Unfortunately, Chip's Challenge is real-time, and real-time force floor maze require attention and care to be interesting puzzles. Alas, attention and care was not there, thus it turns into an action level with tons of chances and very small timing window for each chance. The result requires more luck than skill.

Fifth, the difficulty imbalance. The difficulty curve is absolutely EVERYWHERE after a certain point -- if you're playing it without a guide, the wacky positioning of difficult levels makes the game incredibly frustrating to play.

The field of view. It's inexcusably small. I know, I know, done on a portable console with a small screen first, well used in "Totally Unfair" and all that. Screw it. All puzzle games are (or should be) about PLANNING and thus you NEED a scrolling field as far as you can go, so if you're porting a portable console game on a PC, do us a favor, and extend our field of view.
If you want to keep it small, then either do the thing Wonderland does with it's Shift key, or do like SubTerra and allow us to scroll the screen while the game is paused. Yes, I know, "Totally Unfair" was brilliant, but if the overall game focus shifts in favor of thinking and planning, that level can go out of the game for all I care.

Then there are the generally inane levels that cannot be excused by any design choice. What WAS the idea that gave us the abomination known as "On The Rocks" for stage 33? It has no excuse to be there. There's no puzzle in it whatsoever, it's just a boring test of patience.

Despite all this, the game COULD be potentially tolerable in the original version (well emulated by "Tile World") but the MS version made the controls a pile of suck. In the original version, Chip went with a certain speed and he did it smoothly. In the MS version, he goes INSTANTLY from tile to tile, but between the tiles he has to wait a small amount of time, so the overall speed ends up being the same. That wouldn't be a problem, had it been properly implemented. The problem is that if you hold a button for a touch too long after Chip slides into a tile and let go, he will wait that small amount of time and then SLIDE into the next tile BY HIMSELF, without any command to do so. That makes the timing window for simply stopping unreasonably small, the controls feel slippery, making even the good levels hellishly frustrating.

Sometimes it's OK, but at other times the controls make the game even more of a pain than it already is. Many levels have block puzzles -- some of them are even really good. The problem is that due to the control problems above you can't just push the button and then let go when needed -- you have to TAP the button for EVERY. SINGLE. STEP. Get to "Seeing Stars" and you will see what I mean. It'll drive you nuts. When you combine it with a BAD block-pushing puzzle (such as "On The Rocks", which isn't even a puzzle, but has tons of block-pushing) the result can only be described as inane and frustrating.

I really wanted to like Chip's Challenge, I really did. It was an inspiration for many great games I enjoy and was one of the first of its kind. I tried to play this game an unhealthy amount of times. But no. It doesn't matter who does it first, it only matters who does it right. Chip's Challenge does it wrong.

If you do actually play Chip's Challenge, it's worth it to get to "On The Rocks" but I do recommend you to stop playing after that.

The sad thing is there are a few brilliant levels in the bunch... but they get drowned in the mud.

The above is just my opinion, though, so... yeah. No offence for the fans or for the designers.

*****************

Some additions:

- "ON THE ROCKS" could have been forgiven if it was the only level like that. It would then separate the boys from the men. But it isn't the only one.

- Since you have found your way to level 64 "SPOOKS" I should actually shut up now and let you do your counterargument. Clearly you know more about the game -- I stopped "playing" soon after "the rocks" and started skipping levels just to see what was next. Some were interesting, some were annoying, quite a few were boring.

jdl · Post by **jdl** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:14 pm

I have Chip's Challenge on my Windows Entertainment Pack CD. In my opinion the game gets a little too confusing and boring for me after awhile like Muzozavr said, and I've never really been bothered to complete it.

There was going to be a Chip's Challenge 2, and as far as we know it's already completed, but the company who owns the name is asking for a huge amount of money from the creator in order to get the game published, so he can't release it.

I'm really looking forward to Chuck's Challenge though!

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:19 pm

Muzozavr wrote:It sucks.

[...]

No offence for the fans or for the designers.

I'm trying my hardest not to take any.

No, I don't have any counter-arguments, but Chip's Challenge was like, my first puzzle game ever. You raise a lot of valid points, I know I'd be fighting a losing battle to try and argue against what you're saying (and I'm not just saying that because I'm bitter, but because I legitimately do not have an argument).

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:53 pm

I always suggest Crystal Shard's SubTerra to anyone who wants to see most of Chip's object set (plus several others, combined with some original new objects) finally put to good use. That thing is gold. There are two games, I like the first one better, but both are great. It's like Boulder Dash + Supaplex + Sokoban + Chip's Challenge + a laser game + epicness, AND IT WORKS. The crazy crossover forms a surprisingly coherent and enjoyable whole.

You can see my username in the "Advanced" stage of their HOF. I have actually achieved "Legendary" since then, but I have always held off on submitting because I wanted to try and achieve "Ultimate". The last few remaining levels are epic ridiculously hard, though (some I only solved on easy mode + they want me to do WHAT on "Ray Tracing"!?) so I have taken a big break from all of this. The second game I haven't played nearly as much, I just don't like the levels as much, but it's still good.

As for Chip's Challenge, I wouldn't have been all that bitter about it, but I'm tired and sick of seeing it as the poster child of great puzzle games. It makes me want to find the anthropomorphic Internet and scream bad words in its face. There are thousands of much better puzzle games that need more love -- why is CC so important? Are there any sensible reasons for this, or is it really just nostalgia value and Microsoft's frightening popularity?

The game itself did annoy me, but was still quite forgettable -- certainly not a reason to write huge bitter walls of text -- but the hype around it angers me. After all these years, it still holds the title of "underground phenomenon", whilst I would be immensely happy to see it as "obscure cult hit", simply to get more and more people into better puzzle games. Games would receive popularity and people would receive better, more satisfying brain work.

I'm trying my hardest not to take any.

All of us have a purely emotional, sometimes illogical and even irrational side that operates based purely on psychology. I'm sincerely sorry if I strained yours.

Yzfm · Post by **Yzfm** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:02 am

Some of what you say everybody is very true, here's my opinion:

1.Graphics:

In fact, graphics are quiet bad.... you are right when you say it's bad to see Chip "jumping" to the next 32x32 tile when pressing arrow keys.. also, some sprites do not really describe the thingy. That is: why would a bee follow a wall like a Kaboom!??

... And the teeth sprite is quiet creepy. Ya know, it's one reason that I simply AM stuck in SPOOKS.. I think the problem is in me.. Teeth and chomps are frightening for me *shot*

2.Gameplay Elements:

Nothing much to say here... The elements themselves are good but they are needed to be put in better levels.. and the sprites simply GOTTA be updated...

3. Puzzles:

I actually find almost no puzzle in the game, puzzle elements are rare and even block pushing levels aren''t puzzling (Yeah Muzozavr, On the rocks IS Annoying.)

4. Action:

Action is pretty much in this game, in a good way.. but when that theme is overused, I get bored and angry.

5. Storyline:

Very Weak indeed..

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:11 am

LOL, I don't even care about the storyline or graphics... it would be nice to see better graphics, but actually I don't really care -- as long as I can recognize the objects and remember how they look... they could be pencil doodles. The heart and soul of a tile-based puzzle/action game is the level design.

As for the "jumping", again, it's not an issue of graphics for me. It's an issue of controls, which are really wonky. The "jumping" is only a small part of this particular problem -- had they done the programming properly, it wouldn't matter.

EDIT: LOL, I found CCDesign and the next thing that happens is that I'm starting (but please don't count on this, my ADHD-ness makes me drop projects often only to come back god knows when) my own level set and I want to do a better job.

The second level is a blue block/invisible wall maze made specifically to show just how annoying they both are -- the level is called "Rejected Mechanic" and no blue/fake walls will ever appear in any of the other levels.

(There's a hint tile that tells you the correct path)