New Level -- Deceptively Deceptive

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:22 pm

After an all too long period of silence... well, my previous level ("Vanishing Act") was really easy...

... so, here's a really hard one.

Make no mistake: if there are no loopholes, then this might be the most complicated level I've ever produced. I know that's a pretty big "if" considering the nature of the layout (especially with gate reusing) but I couldn't find any puzzle-breaking loopholes. I would've done more testing, but I wanted to release it in time for the New Year.

I even wanted to decorate the level with a custom texture (and would've chosen "wintersnow" had I done so) but in the end I couldn't do this: there are 1-step and 2-step bridges in this level and the distinction is absolutely crucial. Pay close attention.

***

You know my style of "pack A LOT of puzzling and movement into 14x14", right? Now imagine a 28x28 level designed the same way. There are many tricks (including two that I've never combined before) and multiple instances of going back and forth in a highly specific order to do something that isn't obvious.

Note that the solution is very time-consuming. I did give you the comfort of all 15 minutes on the timer and even put three alarm clocks inside the level, but there's a very good reason I did that.

Granted, I was quite slow in parts, just to make absolutely sure I didn't mess up, but even knowing the solution, it took me over 10 minutes to do it. So you may want to figure out the puzzle in untimed mode. It's that long, despite only being 28x28 in size.

EDIT: Version B is up. If you solved the level the intended way (or are still stuck) the difference is barely noticeable.

EDIT 2: Version C is up. If you solved the level the intended way (or are still stuck) the differences, though noticeable, will not seem significant, except for one break tile that forces you to use a certain box in a smarter way. However, some serious shortcuts are closed.

Version B is removed. The original is still there for comparison.

ppahr · Post by **ppahr** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:16 pm

glad to see you back

Chip · Post by **Chip** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:17 pm

Hi Muzo

It's great to see a new level from you.

And what a brainteaser! It will keep me busy for a long time, surely until next year...

By the way: I wish you all the best in 2015.

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:25 am

I'm still working on it - a full day already: I've got all coins and the exit path is available, but I'm still looking for a way to overcome the UFO.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:47 am

Amnon wrote:I'm still working on it - a full day already: I've got all coins and the exit path is available, but I'm still looking for a way to overcome the UFO.

*flashes a devious grin with a cartoony half-raised eyebrow*

I expected as much. So... are you sure you've approached all the other parts of the level correctly?

You need to solve the rest of the level in a way that allows certain moves to happen. Some of the smaller puzzles are mostly self-contained and don't affect much, but some parts of the level are related and inter-connected.

Think of what objects could be theoretically useful to deal with the UFO, then figure out if it's possible to bring them there. In doing so, watch out for a trick that will allow you to solve one room in the top half of the level in a different way. That, in turn, will make other options pop up.

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:09 am

In doing so, watch out for a trick that will allow you to solve one room in the top half of the level in a different way. That, in turn, will make other options pop up.

That was already the case and now I see how I can also obtain a second barrel and a bit more, but getting them all the way up to the UFO will take some more time.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:22 am

Amnon wrote:
In doing so, watch out for a trick that will allow you to solve one room in the top half of the level in a different way. That, in turn, will make other options pop up.
That was already the case and now I see how I can also obtain a second barrel and a bit more, but getting them all the way up to the UFO will take some more time.

You can't get the barrel directly to the UFO... at least I don't think you can. That would be way too simple for a level titled "Deceptively Deceptive".

I've checked the level layout multiple times and I don't think there's a way to do so.

Nonetheless, the barrels play a big role. It's just not as simple and direct as "kill UFO with barrel".

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:32 pm

Happy New Years Muz!

What a beautifully conflagration of deception!

I'm still working on this exceptional puzzler!

Thank you for sharing.

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:28 pm

OK, I can see the general overall picture now, but killing the UFO would take me more time which I don't have at the moment. I'll continue working on it next week then.

Just to ensure that we are on the same wavelength, the thing which should kill the UFO is a green sphere!

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:41 pm

Amnon wrote:OK, I can see the general overall picture now, but killing the UFO would take me more time which I don't have at the moment. I'll continue working on it next week then.

Just to ensure that we are on the same wavelength, the thing which should kill the UFO is a green sphere!

No... wait... how??

The green sphere is sort of useful, but for a different reason...

I'll be waiting for the PM while trying to figure out how to pull this off.

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:12 am

PM sent!

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:38 am

I knew this would eventually happen. Loopholes had to be found in a level of this complexity and magnitude.

Version B is up in the first post.

The level itself isn't changed, I just redesigned the exit area very slightly. Now you can't kill the UFO with a sphere. The fix is a bit visually ugly, but it should work.

EDIT: OH GODDAMMIT Mark found something that might become another huge break and I have no idea how to fix this... but I don't even know if this is actually useful, so I'll have to think on this one. This is unrelated to Amnon's trick, that's taken care of.

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:48 am

OK, back to the drawing-board. I'll look for further ideas next week...

You have plenty of time to fix Mark's problem, Muzo, because I won't be trying anything more this week.

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:49 am

Mark found something that might become another huge break and I have no idea how to fix this...

You don't mean, perhaps, shooting the UFO with the cannon by moving the reflector fast enough.... well I tried it in several ways, but none worked.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:50 am

Amnon wrote:
Mark found something that might become another huge break and I have no idea how to fix this...
You don't mean, perhaps, shooting the UFO with the cannon by moving the reflector fast enough.... well I tried it in several ways, but none worked.

No.

The cannon is not involved.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:07 am

Muzozavr wrote: Mark found something that might become another huge break and I have no idea how to fix this...

It was just a theory I hads considered, but I think it was a false alarm.
I don't believe it would be physically possible to carry out.

BTW, I've made it past the halfway point and am enjoying the many original and clever moves you've dreamed up!

This is truly a Muzozavr Masterpiece!

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:45 am

OK, the huge break was actually impossible, but Mark did find a way to save one wooden box in a place that isn't too easy to fix. It's not a big deal so far because a use for that box hasn't been found, but it's still a bit of an oversight. I'll think about this. I might have to make a certain puzzle slightly harder, but it's not a big deal compared to how difficult the rest of the level is.

EDIT: Sent a possible fix to Mark for him to check. It does make the puzzle a bit harder than what it originally was.

bob roest · Post by **bob roest** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:46 pm

Muzozavr wrote:EDIT: Sent a possible fix to Mark for him to check. It does make the puzzle a bit harder than what it originally was.

Yeah, that's what you need to do...make the puzzle a bit harder.

I can't even get past the blue sphere section. I tried using the cannon and reflectors to close a gate for me so I can tramp where I need to but I constantly run out of time.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:34 pm

I didn't want to make the bottom left part harder, but I can't find any other way to keep the puzzle similar but remove a certain way to get an extra box. The box itself isn't very troublesome, but I fear that its presence may make all kinds of other crazy shenanigans pop up.

And I would've felt very strange about your "running out of time" comment had Mark not commented per PM that he tried a similar approach, too. If you do the right thing, there should be more than enough time. So...

You're probably using the wrong object in the water tile. The spheres don't go there, but with their help, something else does.

If this is not enough, here's another hint for the same section, don't read unless you've read hint 1 and that wasn't enough:

Find a way to destroy ONE wooden box, but not both. The other one is what goes into the water.

bob roest · Post by **bob roest** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:58 pm

Thanks for the hint Muzo, I tried something that required a little practise timing but it works fine.

I'll try and tackle more of this level later.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:01 pm

Mark has played this level a lot by now (although he still hasn't solved this final version now, but he did figure out how to kill the UFO - now he has to figure out a few remaining details of how to set things up) and GREATLY helped me in testing. I really should've done this before releasing this level, actually, but I wanted to release it while it was still 2014...

After countless internal revisions (one of which wasn't even solvable - sorry, Mark!) I've finally come up with a version C that should fix some problems. A few fixes are visually ugly, but they work.

In a level of this magnitude, there are always things that have to be found in testing before releasing the level on the forum. Lesson learned.

Apart from Amnon and Mark, nobody else has reported getting to the parts where my fixes actually matter, so this shouldn't be too problematic.

Version C is up. Lots of little fixes included, some minor, others prevent significant shortcuts or item abuses. If you have a sticky cube with a coin inside and there's an ice cube on the left yellow TP (and a lava square above that), you have version C.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:33 pm

Finally finished this epic Masterpiece!

I've spent many hours and days on this.
With many hints from Master Magician Muzo,
I was able to cross that elusive exit.

Now like Peegue, I need to rest.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:37 am

I wanted to add that Muz has accomplished something truly extraordinary here!

There are so many ingenious puzzles that seem impossible, but can be unlocked with some innovative techniques.

My favorites were: Getting beyond the boxes by the white and green gates.

Getting past the three boxes in the bottom-left corner and still being able to get that coin!

And the most beautiful never-before-scene UFO finale!

So many finely crafted deceptions, and each one is remarkably deceptive!

Thanks again, Muz!

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:21 am

Ah, but if I would've been able to do everything right the first time, without needing version B and then multiple internal revisions leading up to version C... that would've been astounding.

Even now in version C, as you've demonstrated, the first boulder puzzle is still slightly too easy because of an oversight, but, thankfully, that doesn't change the rest of the level, so a fix is not very top priority. Although, since I'm perfectionist, I'll probably come up with a fix eventually and make "version C2", then the result will truly capture my vision in a perfect way.

Still, I absolutely take pride in this level. Most of all in, yes, the UFO finale. That is really something else.

So many finely crafted deceptions, and each one is remarkably deceptive!

Yes, just as the title says.

"Deceptively Deceptive" is right.

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:22 pm

All I can say so far is that version C has no implications for me - I can still get everything except pass the UFO. I still have no clue but I'll keep trying.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:26 pm

Amnon wrote:All I can say so far is that version C has no implications for me - I can still get everything except pass the UFO. I still have no clue but I'll keep trying.

If you did everything else the intended way, version C will not have any serious implications. It exists to prevent some potential shortcuts and/or item abuses that could change, simplify or skip entire sections.

The UFO finale has to be one of the trickiest puzzles I've ever designed. I've never combined both of these tricks before in the same level, let alone make one puzzle with both of them together.

If you figure it out, you'll be staring at the screen and thinking "wait, really?". I'm so proud of this ending. It's that crazy.

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:31 am

Reporting some progress:

I managed to take the transporter off-course.
I can even place it above the red TP, or to its right (so I could get Peegue to visit the UFO in person, then once Peegue is dead the UFO is out of the way.... but then it's too late).

I tried one other thing: pushing up against the closed red gate until an external event opens it (yes, it's possible!), then rushing up to the exit.... but there isn't enough time to cross, so that's obviously not the way and the UFO must be killed... or diverted (by some object other than Peegue)...

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:21 am

Surely you mean "below" the red TP?

The idea is not to "visit the UFO in person" or "lean against the gate". The transporter is merely one of the objects that is needed to get rid of the UFO and its role is merely to provide a bunch of crazy movement options that weren't available before. It's not used to "divert" the UFO, either.

Now, if you can find the right objects to combine with these movement options, everything might just fall into place.

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:27 am

Surely you mean "below" the red TP?

Oops yes, I meant above the red BUTTON, which is just below the red TP.

Now, if you can find the right objects to combine with these movement options, everything might just fall into place.

Yes, I did guess that this is the case, so nothing is easy and it will take me another few days...

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:50 am

I just made it, in principle...

But only using intermediate saves through the editor.

Now lets see how many days it will take me to actually do the lot without errors and accidents, and whether the time will be sufficient.