New Level -- Deceptively Deceptive

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:17 am

Amnon wrote:I just made it, in principle... But only using intermediate saves through the editor.

I also solved it by using intermediate saves because of its size and the probability of making a mistake.

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:53 am

I finally made it, all through at once!

However, I could not reproduce the way I seem to have found around the red TP which was different to Mark's, so I only made it Mark's way.

I did the bottom-left area however completely differently to Mark.

Now I can only appreciate the great work that was put into this level, preventing so many things that "seem" possible but are not.

Thanks, Muzo!!!

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:34 am

Which version did you play? Version C should not allow you to do the bottom left are "completely differently". If it does, you should PM me.

Also, how does the "different" way around the red TP work?

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:16 am

I played version C. I'll send you a PM to describe my way.

As for the red TP, it's likely to have been my mistake while setting up intermediate levels in the editor, because I could not repeat it.

Essentially, I kept the boulder in there till nearly the last moment, but I cannot repeat what I did.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:16 am

Yep, keeping the boulder in there doesn't work. Mark tried this approach, actually.

As for the bottom left corner -- nice. I am afraid having an extra box might screw something up later on, but if it's not very significant, I probably won't change that one -- if the player thinks of this idea, he deserves the win. Besides, I don't have a clue on how I would change it, anyway...

I will, however, try to change the first boulder puzzle so that it's not as easy as it is now. I don't have time to test this, but imagine very slow spikes (speed 4) one tile to the right of the yellow button. That should stop the easiest solution in version "C2".

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:14 pm

Yep, keeping the boulder in there doesn't work. Mark tried this approach, actually.

Seems so, but only by a hair's-breadth - I'll send you a PM about it.

I am afraid having an extra box might screw something up later on,

I don't think so - you can only bring two objects up.

I will, however, try to change the first boulder puzzle so that it's not as easy as it is now. I don't have time to test this, but imagine very slow spikes (speed 4) one tile to the right of the yellow button.

Wow, that makes it a really cool puzzle!

I am only playing revision 3 (the latest), but I found a great solution and moreover, it allowed me to complete this boulder puzzle without exiting the area, which I didn't realise was possible before.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:12 pm

I am only playing revision 3 (the latest), but I found a great solution and moreover, it allowed me to complete this boulder puzzle without exiting the area, which I didn't realise was possible before.

Which is totally what I originally wanted in the first place.

And WOW that red TP idea is something else. It's a shame that I didn't figure it out myself and didn't design the level around it. That would make the puzzle even smarter than what it currently is. Amnon's potential idea is quite different from what Mark was trying to do before finding my solution.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:43 pm

Muzozavr wrote:It's quite different from what Mark was trying to do.

I thought I solved the red TP puzzle the intended way (except for that long jump).

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:19 pm

Eventually you did, and I don't care much for the long jump because the other long jump is still mandatory... but remember when you were trying to leave the boulder until last and failed?

Amnon came up with a potential way to not use the boulder at all. The only reason it fails is because the teleporters are just a touch too close to each other.

Even if spread a bit wider, it would require unbelievably fast movement, but it would work. And it would make the puzzle even tricksier and smartsier than it already is.

I rewrote the last line in my previous post to be more understandable.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:26 pm

I know it's late and I know most people won't care (because Amnon and Mark are the only one who have reported solving the level) but I *think* I've managed to fix all the remaining problems.

Aside from that 4-spike one tile to the right of the yellow button, I've added one other 4-spike into the potential "version D"... it's one tile above the pink gate.

I'm sorry, Amnon, but that extra box makes me fear all sorts of potential shenanigans, even though I have no idea what would they be. You shouldn't be able to use your box-saving solution to the bottom left corner now.

I still have less time than I would've liked (though more than before) and my primary method of testing is "finish the entire level successfully" and with a level as big and tough as this one, it does take some time. So I'm not uploading "version D" just yet but if anybody (Amnon? Mark?) wants to try, these two spikes are all it takes to convert "C" into "D".

And then "D" will stand for "Deception".