I am bringing this up again because over the last few months, levels have been getting more difficult to solve. Also, several have commented on how hard the levels are. However, there have been very few spoilers posted. I would like to request that spoilers again be posted, particularly when there are comments made about the difficulty. I've looked back over levels and find that creators who used to have many posts to their levels now have only a handful of comments. Perhaps the reason is that people just can't complete them. I know some PM the creator for hints, but some don't want to bother the creator. In addition, sending PMs does not help the person who joins the board 6 months from now, particularly if the creator has forgotten any hints or has left Wonderland.
So please help those of us who are struggling with your levels. You all are very creative people and make fantastic levels. We would just like to be able to learn and enjoy them to the fullest extent. Thanks!
For new posters/creators, here is what Patrick had to say about the topic.
Midnight Synergy wrote:
I agree, I'm surprised with all the PMing you guys have done, looking through the most recent posts. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but it does mean you have to repeat yourself over and over again.
One suggestion I had made to others is this, if you want to double protect any spoilers: put the text in White font, that way it is hard to read (for anyone just browsing) and needs to be highlighted to become clear.
Like so:
Spoiler! (highlight to read)
The answer to this level, of course, is 42.
End Spoiler
It ain't perfect, but it hides it a little better.[/quote]
Spoilers
Thanks Gen for bringing this up. I too am having a lot of trouble solving levels recently. I keep thinking it must be me getting on a bit and the old grey matter slowly melting away! 
I have noticed that there are less and less replies to levels posted. This must be quite disappointing for a lot of level creators.
Would you want spoilers posted with every level when each level is actually posted? That is very time consuming - for me anyway! There is no way I would be able to post a "walkthrough" each time I upload a level. Most of the time it is just a certain part of the level where help is needed anyway.
A while ago - you posted just the word "help" on each level you couldn't do - I thought that was quite a good idea! If people started to do that - that should prompt the level maker into posting a spoiler in the way Patrick suggested. The level creator doesn't know if people need help until they read that help is needed - so that is a good way of letting the creator know when to post a spoiler.
As a level creator - it is hard to assess yourself how hard a level actually is. I have posted levels on numerous occassions and thought to myself "Ha! They'll never get this stinker!". Then lo and behold two or three people have completed it whilst I have gone to get a coffee!
What do other people think?
I have noticed that there are less and less replies to levels posted. This must be quite disappointing for a lot of level creators.
Would you want spoilers posted with every level when each level is actually posted? That is very time consuming - for me anyway! There is no way I would be able to post a "walkthrough" each time I upload a level. Most of the time it is just a certain part of the level where help is needed anyway.
A while ago - you posted just the word "help" on each level you couldn't do - I thought that was quite a good idea! If people started to do that - that should prompt the level maker into posting a spoiler in the way Patrick suggested. The level creator doesn't know if people need help until they read that help is needed - so that is a good way of letting the creator know when to post a spoiler.
As a level creator - it is hard to assess yourself how hard a level actually is. I have posted levels on numerous occassions and thought to myself "Ha! They'll never get this stinker!". Then lo and behold two or three people have completed it whilst I have gone to get a coffee!
What do other people think?
Lillie
Oh, I do so agree. I have made many comments along the way that I really look forward to the "easier" levels being posted - and that said, I love the kids levels, and I think many others do too. I've really enjoyed Sparx's levels too, as they seem to be back to the classic Wonderland style.
Now, none of this is to detract from any of the more complicated and involved levels that are being created. They are absolutely wonderful, and I would give two of my back feet away (notice I didn't include my front hands, or I couldn't play at all) to be able to complete them.
I download every one and at least give them a try, and some I work on for ages, and months, and eons, and them some more ages - and by then the level has been around for such a long time that I feel a bit silly bringing it back to the top, just because I can't do it. I also don't like to bother the creator with my puny request for help - after all, they just might be involved in designing a simple one just for me, and if I interrupt, then they'll forget what they were doing, and go back to being brilliant, not just common-or-garden-normal (possibly like most of us).
There, you've gone and made me live up to my title again - definitely a member of Ramblers Anonymous. But thank you Gen - that was a very good point to bring up. I'm with you all the way - I would love to see spoilers again. I really miss them. Still doesn't mean I'll be able to finish them all, but I might stand a better chance. And it doesn't mean that a walk-thru needs to be written for every level. That would be too time consuming, and I would hate to think that people wouldn't create because of the added burden of providing a solution for every one.
Maybe the bottom line is this: We all need to speak up more, not be so shy, retiring and bashful when we're stumped. If we're brave enough to ask for help, then maybe "they" will be kind enough to rescue us.
We really love you guys and we want to be able to play too
Now, none of this is to detract from any of the more complicated and involved levels that are being created. They are absolutely wonderful, and I would give two of my back feet away (notice I didn't include my front hands, or I couldn't play at all) to be able to complete them.
I download every one and at least give them a try, and some I work on for ages, and months, and eons, and them some more ages - and by then the level has been around for such a long time that I feel a bit silly bringing it back to the top, just because I can't do it. I also don't like to bother the creator with my puny request for help - after all, they just might be involved in designing a simple one just for me, and if I interrupt, then they'll forget what they were doing, and go back to being brilliant, not just common-or-garden-normal (possibly like most of us).
There, you've gone and made me live up to my title again - definitely a member of Ramblers Anonymous. But thank you Gen - that was a very good point to bring up. I'm with you all the way - I would love to see spoilers again. I really miss them. Still doesn't mean I'll be able to finish them all, but I might stand a better chance. And it doesn't mean that a walk-thru needs to be written for every level. That would be too time consuming, and I would hate to think that people wouldn't create because of the added burden of providing a solution for every one.
Maybe the bottom line is this: We all need to speak up more, not be so shy, retiring and bashful when we're stumped. If we're brave enough to ask for help, then maybe "they" will be kind enough to rescue us.
We really love you guys and we want to be able to play too
Mrs. Annie Purple Hat
Can I just add something else please.
I used to get so mad with myself if I couldn't complete ALL the levels posted. They would sit in my "still to do" folder until I had cracked them all - even if it did take me forever and a day!
But now I have come to realise that I can't complete them all and it doesn't matter to me any more! Since the lovely Mette has created all the user folders, I find it much better for me to just file the really hard ones in their respective folders and I can go back to them if I so chose.
I also think it is really good that there are some really hard levels to play. People like Malc and Bear must find most of the levels not much of a challenge - so it is good for them that there are people like Deetster, Bordeaux and Brentnor (for example) who have come on board to make real stinkers for them to play. If you read Malc and Bear's comments on their levels - both parties must be very happy!
Just a thought
I used to get so mad with myself if I couldn't complete ALL the levels posted. They would sit in my "still to do" folder until I had cracked them all - even if it did take me forever and a day!
But now I have come to realise that I can't complete them all and it doesn't matter to me any more! Since the lovely Mette has created all the user folders, I find it much better for me to just file the really hard ones in their respective folders and I can go back to them if I so chose.
I also think it is really good that there are some really hard levels to play. People like Malc and Bear must find most of the levels not much of a challenge - so it is good for them that there are people like Deetster, Bordeaux and Brentnor (for example) who have come on board to make real stinkers for them to play. If you read Malc and Bear's comments on their levels - both parties must be very happy!
Just a thought
Lillie
Mmmm ... I doubt we can please the masses here ...
Here's what I do ...
1. If I get a pm query, I reply by pm
2. If there's an SOS on the thread and the level's only been there a short while, I send a pm
3. If there's an SOS on the thread and it's been there a while, or - multiple SOS's on a thread ... I post a spoiler
4. If I get loads of pm's, I post a spoiler
If anyone has an opinion on the above, please share and I can always adapt the approach.
If I'm stuck on someone else's, I have to admit I lurk until a spoiler goes on. There are dozens of levels I've never completed for this reason which seems a shame. But on the other hand, new ones come through thick and fast - I'm always entertained which is the main thing.
Kazza
Here's what I do ...
1. If I get a pm query, I reply by pm
2. If there's an SOS on the thread and the level's only been there a short while, I send a pm
3. If there's an SOS on the thread and it's been there a while, or - multiple SOS's on a thread ... I post a spoiler
4. If I get loads of pm's, I post a spoiler
If anyone has an opinion on the above, please share and I can always adapt the approach.
If I'm stuck on someone else's, I have to admit I lurk until a spoiler goes on. There are dozens of levels I've never completed for this reason which seems a shame. But on the other hand, new ones come through thick and fast - I'm always entertained which is the main thing.
Kazza
ooo .. just thought of something else ...
can I just add
I've no objections to others helping those in peril and posting hints on my levels if I'm not around. I log in everyday (no really - i do
) but if someone needs help the minute I log off, you might have a long wait !
I'd like to suggest that ALL spoilers and hints are posted in white print, whether they are your levels or not, the primary reason being that those (including myself) who haven't downloaded the levels yet can read the solution before they have even seen it - there's no pleasure in working it out when the game is given away before you even start. I'm sure players who eventually need a nudge would have liked to have a go on their own first.
What dya think folks ?
Kazza
can I just add
I've no objections to others helping those in peril and posting hints on my levels if I'm not around. I log in everyday (no really - i do
) but if someone needs help the minute I log off, you might have a long wait ! I'd like to suggest that ALL spoilers and hints are posted in white print, whether they are your levels or not, the primary reason being that those (including myself) who haven't downloaded the levels yet can read the solution before they have even seen it - there's no pleasure in working it out when the game is given away before you even start. I'm sure players who eventually need a nudge would have liked to have a go on their own first.
What dya think folks ?
Kazza
Re: Spoilers
Like so:Gen wrote: One suggestion I had made to others is this, if you want to double protect any spoilers: put the text in White font, that way it is hard to read (for anyone just browsing) and needs to be highlighted to become clear.
Spoiler! (highlight to read)
The answer to this level, of course, is 42.
End Spoiler
Trouble with what you have above, Gen, is that it is still readable.Gen wrote:It ain't perfect, but it hides it a little better.
So, here's a little tip to make it almost totally unreadable: Stick the spoiler in a 'quote' box, like so:
Hope this helps.Sid the Spoiler wrote: Here is my almost unreadable spoiler
Bear
Re: Spoilers
That has always been such a good idea. It gives every one a fair chance to solve the level on their own, and for us wimpy onesGen wrote: here is what Patrick had to say about the topic.
Midnight Synergy wrote:
......................
One suggestion I had made to others is this, if you want to double protect any spoilers: put the text in White font, that way it is hard to read (for anyone just browsing) and needs to be highlighted to become clear.
Like so:
Spoiler! (highlight to read)
The answer to this level, of course, is 42.
End Spoiler
It ain't perfect, but it hides it a little better.
(I mean me), if we ask for help, there's a reasonable hope that we'll get some before the level has gone so cold that you're really not interested in starting over again.
There are so many that I wish now I'd asked for help, because they intrigued me, infuriated me and totally exasperated me and I still wish I could have finished them. One day I'll have to download everything and go through all the ones I haven't finished
but that's only when you all stop making new ones ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Mrs. Annie Purple Hat
Agree with Gen on the above. When spoilers are posted in "white" those who are capable of solving the level don't have to read it, but, on the other hand, it gives those of us who don't have a clue at least a chance. A simple "help please" from a member could initiate a PM or a "spoiler" in the thread. Kaz's reply mades good sense. One cry for help -- a PM. More cries -- spoiler in the thread.
I have even read where some members think something is wrong with their computer because they need more boxes, bolders, etc. & think that the level is not working properly. Bravo to them for asking this question -- I'm too shy to think it's my computer I just feel it's me being "totally blank" which I don't like to admit.
Wonderland should be fun for everyone. Although, I must say that even with spoilers I don't think there are some levels which I could ever complete unless I had a complete walk-thru. But that's just me
TASHA
I have even read where some members think something is wrong with their computer because they need more boxes, bolders, etc. & think that the level is not working properly. Bravo to them for asking this question -- I'm too shy to think it's my computer I just feel it's me being "totally blank" which I don't like to admit.
Wonderland should be fun for everyone. Although, I must say that even with spoilers I don't think there are some levels which I could ever complete unless I had a complete walk-thru. But that's just me
TASHA
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one needing spoilers. In no way am I suggesting that creators make easier levels. Each of you have come up with so many neat little tricks. Just give us a chance to learn about those tricks - like the cannons that don't fire and the fires that need to be put out first. Even Patrick gives us this chance with selected levels of his games.
Bearsland, what a great idea! And so easy to do. Thanks for passing it on! Just put [ quote ] then [ color=white ] your spoiler, then [ /color ] then[ /quote ] (no spaces in between) and presto, the spoiler is not readable except when highlighted. Then no one has to read the spoiler unless they really need to do so.
As Ann said, "we all need to speak up more, not be so shy, retiring and bashful." For awhile there, I was the only one asking for help. It made me feel like a dunce, so I quit. One thing I would suggest is that if your level is close to leaving the first page of the forum and it only has a handful of comments, post a spoiler. And those of us who need a spoiler - let's do speak up more often.
Bearsland, what a great idea! And so easy to do. Thanks for passing it on! Just put [ quote ] then [ color=white ] your spoiler, then [ /color ] then[ /quote ] (no spaces in between) and presto, the spoiler is not readable except when highlighted. Then no one has to read the spoiler unless they really need to do so.
Kazza, the approaches that I would change are possibly #1 and #2. It seems if one person has a problem, there are probably others that have a problem too. And with the method that Bearsland suggested, the spoiler is invisible to those who don't want a spoiler. Like you, I lurk on threads of the levels I have a problem with hoping for a spoiler. I'm sure there are many that do the same.Bearsland your are a genius!
As Ann said, "we all need to speak up more, not be so shy, retiring and bashful." For awhile there, I was the only one asking for help. It made me feel like a dunce, so I quit. One thing I would suggest is that if your level is close to leaving the first page of the forum and it only has a handful of comments, post a spoiler. And those of us who need a spoiler - let's do speak up more often.
